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Subject: Re: Nice rook endgame - Testposition

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 03:44:42 08/21/02

Go up one level in this thread


On August 21, 2002 at 05:53:09, Bernhard Bauer wrote:

>On August 21, 2002 at 04:28:13, Eduard Nemeth wrote:
>
>>On August 21, 2002 at 04:00:34, Odd Gunnar Malin wrote:
>>
>>>On August 21, 2002 at 03:49:31, Bernhard Bauer wrote:
>>>
>>>>On August 20, 2002 at 22:29:44, Eduard Nemeth wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Here played two player with an Elo about 2500:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>[Event "17th Open Avoine FRA"]
>>>>>[Site "?"]
>>>>>[Date "2002.??.??"]
>>>>>[Round "?"]
>>>>>[White "Dumitrache,D"]
>>>>>[Black "Smetankin,S"]
>>>>>[WhiteElo "2500"]
>>>>>[BlackElo "2455"]
>>>>>[ECO "A65"]
>>>>>[Result "0-1"]
>>>>>
>>>>>1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 c5 3. d5 e6 4. Nc3 exd5 5. cxd5 d6 6. e4 g6
>>>>>7. Bd3 Bg7 8. Nge2 O-O 9. O-O a6 10. a4 Nbd7 11. h3 Re8
>>>>>12. Ng3 h5 13. Bg5 Qc7 14. Rc1 Nh7 15. Be3 h4 16. Nge2 Ne5
>>>>>17. b4 b6 18. a5 Nxd3 19. Qxd3 c4 20. Qc2 bxa5 21. Qa4 Nf6
>>>>>22. Qxa5 Qxa5 23. bxa5 Nxe4 24. Na4 c3 25. Rfd1 Bd7 26. Nb6
>>>>>Ra7 27. Bd4 Bh6 28. Rc2 Bb5 29. Nxc3 Nxc3 30. Rxc3 Rae7
>>>>>31. Rc8 Bg5 32. Bb2 Kh7 33. Rxe8 Rxe8 34. Bc1 Kh6 35. Bxg5+
>>>>>Kxg5 36. Rc1 Re4 37. Rc7 f6 38. Kh2 f5 39. f3 Re2 40. Nc8
>>>>>Rd2 41. Nxd6 Rxd5 42. Nxb5 Rxb5 43. Rc6 Rxa5 44. f4+ Kh6
>>>>>45. Kg1 Ra2 46. Rc7 a5 47. Ra7 a4 48. Kf1 a3 49. Kg1 Ra1+
>>>>>50. Kf2 a2 51. Ra8 Kg7 52. Ra7+ Kf6 53. Ra6+ Ke7 54. Ra7+
>>>>>Kd6 55. Ra5 Kc6 56. Ra8 Kd5 57. Ra4 Kc5 58. Ra7 Kc4 59. Ra8
>>>>>Kb3 60. Rb8+ Kc3 61. Rc8+ Kd3 62. Ra8 Rc1 63. Rxa2 Rc2+
>>>>>64. Rxc2 Kxc2 65. Ke2 Kc3 66. Ke3 Kc4 67. g3 (67. Kf3 Kd3
>>>>>68. Kf2 (68. g3 Kd2 69. Kf2 Kd1 $1 70. Kf3 Ke1 $19)
>>>>>68... Kd2 69. Kf3 Ke1 70. g3 hxg3 71. Kg2 Ke2 72. Kxg3
>>>>>Kf1 $19) (67. Ke2 Kd4 68. g3 Ke4 69. Kf2 Kd3 70. Kf3 Kd2
>>>>>71. Kf2 Kd1 $19) 67... Kc3 68. gxh4 (68. Ke2 Kd4 69. Kf3
>>>>>Kd3 $19) 68... Kc4 69. Ke2 Kd4 70. Kd2 Ke4 71. Ke2 Kxf4
>>>>>72. Kf2 Ke4 73. Ke2 f4 74. Kf2 f3 75. Ke1 Kf5 76. Kf1 Ke5
>>>>>77. h5 gxh5 78. h4 Kf4 79. Kf2 Kg4 0-1
>>>>>
>>>>>In this game (with my comments) won black with the nice move 62...Rc1!
>>>>>In my comments you can see, that black can win the pawn-ending, allways!
>>>>>
>>>>>But after an moves "only" with his king, black cannot win!
>>>>>
>>>>>How many time your program needs, to see that Rc1 this game win?
>>>>>
>>>>>Here this position after move 62, white:
>>>>>
>>>>>[D]R7/8/6p1/5p2/5P1p/3k3P/p4KP1/r7 b - -
>>>>>
>>>>>Eduard
>>>>
>>>>Hi Eduard,
>>>>sorry, but I cannot see the win too.
>>>>What about 62...Rc1 63.Ra3+ and so on?
>>>>Could it be that 63.Rxa2 is a blunder that leads to a lost pawn ending?
>>>>Kind regards
>>>>Bernhard
>>>
>>>Maybe 62...Rc1 63.Ra3+ Rc3 and if not 64.Rxa2 Rc2+ (same position) the pawn will
>>>promote because of Rc2+ in next anyway follow a kingwalk to help the pawn.
>>>
>>>Odd Gunnar
>>
>>Right!
>>
>>After  63. Ra3+ Rc3 and now 64. Ra8? come Rc2+! and black hould soon a Queen
>>with Rook + King!
>>
>>Eduard
>
>You both are right!
>I overlooked 63...Rc3 64.Rxa2 Rc2+ which leads to the same position.
>
>BTW
>When the type of the position changes significantly by trading pieces, here we
>go from a rook endgame to a pawn endgame, shoudn't the programs use a greater
>amount of time for evaluating the resulting position? (Here the pawn endgame).
>I'm under the impression that programs use nearly all the time for evaluating
>the rook endgame. If a program would use say 10% of the time to evaluate the sub
>endgame, chances would be much better not to trade in a lost endgame.
>Kind regards
>Bernhard

Yes

It is one of my observation about stupid mistakes
of chess programs including top programs.

This is one of the reason that I decided to develop my
chess program.

A similiar idea that is more general
is clearly in my things to do but it is not at the top of my priorities
and I do not work a lot about my program so I guess that
it is not going to happen in the next weeks.

It is probably better if first I improve my programming skills by
reading the book that Migual suggested.

Uri



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