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Subject: Re: Are these positions good test position(movei-horizon)

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 16:24:19 08/21/02

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On August 21, 2002 at 19:10:49, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:

>On August 21, 2002 at 18:11:26, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>[D]4r3/p2q2k1/2pp4/2p4b/QrP1P2b/1P1P1Pp1/P3N1R1/3RN2K w - - 0 36 bm Qa5
>>
>>Questions:
>>1)Is Qa5 winning?
>>2)Is Qa5 the only win?
>
>this position is not interesting IMHO, usually engines make
>way bigger mistakes than such ones.
>
>>I will be happy if somebody with fast hardware can analyze for some hours
>>the possible alternatives Qa3 Qa5 and Qa6.
>>
>>Movei played Qa3 that is probably enough only for a draw
>>
>>
>>[D]6k1/6r1/2Q3N1/2p5/2P1P1qb/1P1P2p1/P5R1/3b2K1 w - - 0 46 bm Qa8+ Qe8+
>>am Qd5+,Nxh4
>>
>>Movei lost by Nxh4
>
>I get draw score for Nxh4, also at bigger search depths.
>
>00:00    125   0k 0 0 5 (2) 1 (0,0) 0.455 Ng6xh4 Qg4xh4 Qc6xc5
>00:00   4800   5k 0 0 432 (2) 2 (0,7) 0.455 Ng6xh4 Qg4xh4 Qc6xc5
>00:00   8721   9k 0 0 1221 (2) 3 (0,43) 0.455 Ng6xh4 Qg4xh4 Qc6xc5
>00:00  23210  23k 0 0 4642 (2) 4 (1,85) 0.377 Ng6xh4 Qg4xh4 Qc6-c8 Kg8-h7 Qc8xc5
>
>00:00  38323  38k 0 0 14946 (2) 5 (2,147) 0.527 Ng6xh4 Qg4xh4 Qc6xc5 Rg7-h7 Kg1-
>f1
>00:00  58975  59k 0 0 38334 (2) 6 (5,221) 0.771 Ng6xh4 Qg4xh4 Qc6-c8 Kg8-f7 Qc8x
>c5 Bd1-f3 Qc5-f5 Qh4-f6 Qf5xf6 Kf7xf6
>++ c6-d5
>00:00  58143  58k 0 0 45352 (2) 6 (5,239) 0.798 Qc6-d5 Kg8-h7 Ng6xh4 Qg4xh4 Qd5x
>c5 Rg7-f7 d3-d4
>00:01  72993  73k 0 0 83942 (2) 7 (5,304) 0.001 Qc6-d5 Kg8-h7 Ng6xh4 Qg4xh4 Qd5x
>c5 Rg7-f7 b3-b4 Qh4-f4
>++ g6-h4
>00:02  69057  69k 0 0 145711 (2) 7 (33,412) 0.350 Ng6xh4 Qg4xh4 Qc6xc5 Rg7-f7 Qc
>5-b6 Qh4-f4 Qb6-g6 Rf7-g7 Qg6-e8 Kg8-h7
>00:03  81023  81k 0 0 279530 (2) 8 (53,576) 0.017 Ng6xh4 Qg4xh4 Qc6-c8 Kg8-h7 Qc
>8xc5 Rg7-f7 b3-b4 Bd1-f3 Qc5-d5
>00:07 102641 103k 0 0 722596 (2) 9 (100,851) 0.001 Ng6xh4 Qg4xh4 Qc6-c8 Kg8-h7 Q
>c8-f5 Kh7-g8 Qf5xc5 Rg7-f7 Qc5-b6 Qh4-f4 Qb6-d8 Rf7-f8 b3-b4
>00:11 127475 127k 0 0 1420078 (2) 10 (115,1099) 0.000 Ng6xh4 Qg4xh4 Qc6-c8 Kg8-h
>7 Qc8-f5 Kh7-g8 Qf5-c8
>00:21 148919 149k 0 0 3148165 (2) 11 (132,1359) 0.000 Ng6xh4 Qg4xh4 Qc6-c8 Kg8-h
>7 Qc8-f5 Kh7-g8 Qf5-c8
>00:34 160815 161k 0 0 5474162 (2) 12 (147,1673) 0.000 Ng6xh4 Qg4xh4 Qc6-c8 Kg8-h
>7 Qc8-f5 Kh7-g8 Qf5-c8
>00:59 170556 171k 0 0 10062816 (2) 13 (173,2077) 0.000 Ng6xh4 Qg4xh4 Qc6-c8 Kg8-
>h7 Qc8-f5 Kh7-g8 Qf5-c8
>02:12 174082 174k 0 0 23052044 (2) 14 (206,2599) 0.000 Ng6xh4 Qg4xh4 Qc6-c8 Kg8-
>h7 Qc8-f5 Kh7-g8 Qf5-c8


In the game horizon did not play Kg8 but played Kh6 that seems to be a winning
move.
Finding it or not finding it like avoiding Nxh4 in the previous diagram is a
question of evaluation.

Crafty has no problem to do it because it evaluates black as better.
Deep Fritz can find Kh6 but only with a very small score.

When I analyzed the game by going backward I could convince yace that black has
almost 1 pawn advantage.

Movei 0.0.72h - Horizon 3.2
[D]8/6rk/8/2p2Q2/2P1P2q/1P1P2p1/P5R1/3b2K1 b - - 0 1

Analysis by Deep Fritz:

48...Kh7-g8--
  =  (0.03)   Depth: 1/3   00:00:00
48...Kh7-g8-- 49.Qf5xc5
  ²  (0.31)   Depth: 1/6   00:00:00
48...Kh7-g8 49.Qf5xc5
  ²  (0.31)   Depth: 2/8   00:00:00
48...Kh7-g8 49.Qf5xc5 Bd1-f3 50.Qc5-d5+ Kg8-h7
  =  (0.25)   Depth: 3/11   00:00:00
48...Rg7-g6!
  =  (0.22)   Depth: 3/11   00:00:00  1kN
48...Rg7-g6! 49.Qf5xc5
  =  (0.19)   Depth: 3/11   00:00:00  1kN
48...Rg7-g6--
  ²  (0.50)   Depth: 4/10   00:00:00  1kN
48...Rg7-g6--
  ²  (0.50)   Depth: 4/14   00:00:00  2kN
48...Kh7-g8!
  ²  (0.47)   Depth: 4/14   00:00:00  2kN
48...Kh7-g8! 49.Qf5xc5
  ²  (0.44)   Depth: 4/14   00:00:00  3kN
48...Kh7-g8 49.Qf5xc5 Rg7-h7 50.Qc5-c8+ Kg8-f7 51.Qc8-d7+ Kf7-g8
  ²  (0.47)   Depth: 5/14   00:00:00  7kN
48...Rg7-g6!
  ²  (0.44)   Depth: 5/14   00:00:00  9kN
48...Rg7-g6! 49.Qf5xc5
  ²  (0.41)   Depth: 5/14   00:00:00  9kN
48...Rg7-g6 49.Qf5xc5 Bd1-f3 50.Qc5-f5 Bf3xg2 51.Qf5-d7+ Kh7-g8 52.Kg1xg2
  ²  (0.34)   Depth: 6/15   00:00:00  17kN
48...Rg7-g6 49.Qf5xc5 Bd1-f3 50.Qc5-f5 Bf3xg2 51.Qf5-f7+ Rg6-g7 52.Qf7-f5+
Rg7-g6 53.Qf5-f7+ Rg6-g7 54.Qf7-f5+
  =  (0.00)   Depth: 7/19   00:00:00  51kN
48...Rg7-g6 49.Qf5-f7+ Rg6-g7 50.Qf7-f5+
  =  (0.00)   Depth: 8/22   00:00:00  204kN
48...Rg7-g6 49.Qf5-f7+ Rg6-g7 50.Qf7-f5+
  =  (0.00)   Depth: 9/23   00:00:00  352kN
48...Rg7-g6 49.Qf5-f7+ Rg6-g7 50.Qf7-f5+
  =  (0.00)   Depth: 10/25   00:00:01  1084kN
48...Rg7-g6 49.Qf5-f7+ Rg6-g7 50.Qf7-f5+
  =  (0.00)   Depth: 11/27   00:00:03  2110kN
48...Rg7-g6 49.Qf5-f7+ Rg6-g7 50.Qf7-f5+
  =  (0.00)   Depth: 12/31   00:00:07  4322kN
48...Rg7-g6 49.Qf5-f7+ Rg6-g7 50.Qf7-f5+
  =  (0.00)   Depth: 13/33   00:00:15  9679kN
48...Kh7-h6!
  =  (0.12)   Depth: 13/35   00:00:31  19533kN
48...Kh7-h6! 49.Qf5-e6+ Rg7-g6 50.Qe6-e5 Kh6-h7 51.Qe5-c7+ Rg6-g7 52.Qc7xc5
Rg7-f7 53.Qc5-e3 Bd1-f3 54.Qe3-d2
  =  (-0.19)   Depth: 13/35   00:01:04  38122kN
48...Kh7-h6 49.Qf5-e6+ Rg7-g6 50.Qe6-e5 Kh6-h7 51.Qe5-f5 Qh4-g5 52.Qf5xg5 Rg6xg5
53.d3-d4 Bd1-f3 54.d4xc5
  =  (-0.16)   Depth: 14/37   00:01:45  65729kN
48...Kh7-h6 49.Qf5-e6+ Rg7-g6 50.Qe6-e5 Kh6-h7 51.Qe5-c7+ Rg6-g7 52.Qc7-e5
Bd1-h5 53.a2-a3
  =  (-0.16)   Depth: 15/39   00:03:01  113863kN

(Blass, Tel-aviv 22.08.2002)



Uri



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