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Subject: Re: DEEP BLUES AVERAGE PLY?

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 19:55:44 08/21/02

Go up one level in this thread


On August 21, 2002 at 18:32:21, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:

>On August 21, 2002 at 17:55:44, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On August 21, 2002 at 17:32:11, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
>>
>>>On August 21, 2002 at 17:25:23, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>And it is just as accurate
>>>>as trying to count nodes.
>>>
>>>It isn't, because the NPS changes, which is just what I said.
>>>
>>>--
>>>GCP
>>
>>
>>It doesn't change _that_ much on the last 3-4-5-6 searches.  At least it
>>doesn't for me in the results from Cray Blitz on 16 and 32 cpus...  Once
>
>Let's jump onto this nodes a second.
>
>Let me quote some text written by you.
>
>DTS article 1997, march 1997. Issue 1 advances in computerchess.
>Not exactly a CCC a bit way  more official.

What is this?  I have no idea.  My DTS article was only published in the JICCA.


>
>page 16 table 3 and 4:
>  16 processors     155,514,410 nodes needed: 311 seconds = 500046 nodes
>                    a second
>   8 processors     109,467,495 nodes needed: 274 seconds = 399516.4 nodes
>                                                                     a second.
>





I can't find that data in my DTS article.  Here is the node counts from
table 4:
pos     1       2       4       8       16
1       2,830   1,415   832     435     311
2       2,849   1,424   791     438     274
3       3,274   1,637   884     467     239
4       2,308   1,154   591     349     208
5       1,584   792     440     243     178
6       4,294   2,147   1,160   670     452
7       1,888   993     524     273     187
8       7,275   3,637   1,966   1,039   680
9       3,940   1,970   1,094   635     398
10      2,431   1,215   639     333     187
11      3,062   1,531   827     425     247
12      2,518   1,325   662     364     219
13      2,131   1,121   560     313     192
14      1,871   935     534     296     191
15      2,648   1,324   715     378     243
16      2,347   1,235   601     321     182
17      4,884   2,872   1,878   1,085   814
18      646     358     222     124     84
19      2,983   1,491   785     426     226
20      7,473   3,736   1,916   1,083   530
21      3,626   1,813   906     489     237
22      2,560   1,347   691     412     264
23      2,039   1,019   536     323     206
24      2,563   1,281   657     337     178

Those above are times in seconds for the 24 positions on 1,2,4,8,16 cpus.

pos     1       	2      		4       	8       		16
1       87,735,974      89,052,012      105,025,123     109,467,495
155,514,410
2       88,954,757      90,289,077      100,568,301     110,988,161
137,965,406
3       101,302,792     102,822,332     111,433,074     117,366,515
119,271,093
4       71,726,853      72,802,754      74,853,409      88,137,085
104,230,094
5       49,386,616      50,127,414      55,834,316      61,619,298
89,506,306
6       133,238,718     135,237,296     146,562,594     168,838,428
226,225,307
7       58,593,747      62,602,792      66,243,490      68,868,878
93,575,946
8       225,906,282     229,294,872     248,496,917     261,728,552
340,548,431
9       122,264,617     124,098,584     138,226,951     159,930,005
199,204,874
10      75,301,353      76,430,872      80,651,716      83,656,702
93,431,597
11      95,321,494      96,751,315      104,853,646     107,369,070
123,994,812
12      79,975,416      85,447,418      85,657,884      94,000,085
112,174,209
13      66,100,160      70,622,802      70,796,754      78,834,155
96,053,649
14      58,099,574      58,971,066      67,561,507      74,791,668
95,627,150
15      84,143,340      85,405,488      92,557,676      97,486,065
124,516,703
16      75,738,094      80,920,173      79,039,499      84,141,904
94,701,972
17      154,901,225     184,970,278     242,480,013     279,166,418
416,426,105
18      20,266,629      22,856,254      28,443,165      31,608,146
42,454,639
19      93,858,903      95,266,785      100,527,830     108,742,238
114,692,731
20      231,206,390     234,674,482     241,284,621     271,751,263
264,493,531
21      112,457,464     114,144,324     114,425,474     123,247,294
118,558,091
22      81,302,340      86,865,131      89,432,576      106,348,704
135,196,568
23      63,598,940      64,552,923      68,117,815      81,871,010
103,621,303
24      80,413,971      81,620,179      83,919,196      85,810,169
90,074,814


>So despite 8 processors more, you didn't get twice as much as nodes
>a second more. In fact you lost 60% speed there in nodes a second.
>
>This was all tested at the same machine you write in the same article.
>
>They were busy idling at the 16 processor?

You have my _real_ data above as was published in the JICCA.  I don't know
what data you are quoting.  But, for reference, on the first position in the
test, the NPS is 31K for 1 processor, 62K for 2, 126K for 4, 251K for 8 and
500K for 16.  I have no idea what numbers _you_ are talking about.  The above
tables and the NPS for the first position are simply taken from the JICCA DTS
paper directly.

So I have no way of answering your last question since it makes no sense.  I
can't find the numbers you gave

Aha.  I see.  Please try again.  You screwed up in copying the data down
so your 8 processor number was too high because you picked the _wrong_
number of the 8 processor time.

And you like to criticize me for errors?

:)


>
>BTW, where are your 32 processor results? I have never seen them in any
>publication. yet your test is pretty simple. Just a 24 positions and
>you only need to get near the same depth of the 16 processor search.
>

I never ran that test.  The 32 processor machine was _far_ faster than the
16 processor machine, which meant I would have had to re-run the 1,2,4,8 and 16
cpu numbers in addition to the 32 processor numbers.  I never had access to a
T90 long enough to do that.  I did run a couple of the positions, and the curve
was definitely getting "worse".  One test position I have ran 20X faster.
Another was 18X faster.  Which is not great.  But then again, 11X out of 16
is also not "great" but it is satisfactory...





>Should be theoretical under an hour...
>

Nope.  T90 CPU is far faster than a C90 CPU.  _all_ results would have to be
re-run.


>
>
>Best regards,
>Vincent
>
>
>
>
>>those two programs get to the 1-2 second mark, the cpus stay busy, period.
>>Just like Crafty.  I don't believe DB had any such problem either, once
>>you get beyond the first search result they outputted for a iteration...
>>
>>You could test your hypothesis however, by seeing if the first couple
>>of branching factors are worse than the last couple for each search...
>>If they are similar, this isn't a problem...
>>
>>I might try this tonight late, for one log file...



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