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Subject: Re: SSDF(Gromit 3.11.9 - Rebel Century 4)A1200, 2-2

Author: Ulrich Tuerke

Date: 15:56:00 08/25/02

Go up one level in this thread


On August 25, 2002 at 18:45:07, Uri Blass wrote:

>On August 25, 2002 at 18:39:07, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>
>>On August 25, 2002 at 18:28:23, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On August 25, 2002 at 18:20:05, Ulrich Tuerke wrote:
>>>
>>>>On August 25, 2002 at 18:11:41, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On August 25, 2002 at 17:54:32, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On August 25, 2002 at 17:23:45, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On August 25, 2002 at 17:09:41, Alexander Kure wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On August 25, 2002 at 16:38:35, Ulrich Tuerke wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>So, the general.ctg isn't an automatically generated book neither ?
>>>>>>>>>BTW, what is your opinion to amateur engines using your books ?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>general.ctg from the young talents CD is identical to the Fritz 6 book and
>>>>>>>>therefore *not* automatically generated.
>>>>>>>>I expect amateur engines using this book to at least gain 100 elo to their SSDF
>>>>>>>>rating.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Greetings
>>>>>>>>Alex
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I think that it is dependent on the knowledge of the amateur in the opening.
>>>>>>>I believe that a good engine should find in 90% of the games the right moves
>>>>>>>with a small user book that have only games of less than 10 moves.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>losing half point in the rest of the games(10%)+losing time in some moves that
>>>>>>>it is out of book is not going to cost 100 elo.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>knock knock, what world are you living in?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>A different one as i do at least. How much alcohol does it take to
>>>>>>drink to say that a hand tuned book is not 100 points better?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>anyone who has seriously auto232 played at home will be able to tell
>>>>>>you the influence. If i do it here we talk about scoring 100% against
>>>>>>an amateur or way way less.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>That's a *major* difference.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>If someone has an epd file of opening positions ordered by frequency based on a
>>>>>>>big database of games then it may be interesting to find the positions that
>>>>>>>programs have problems with them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You are not bad in math. you should understand that if you play 15
>>>>>>book moves that an automatical book has a near to 100% chance to
>>>>>>get into a completely *refuted* line.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Each move there is a chance of around 50% to go wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>>Maybe if you play moves from a big book automatically but this is not the way
>>>>>that I suggest.
>>>>>
>>>>>I suggest to use only a small book that was edited manually and use the big book
>>>>>only in the first moves if you need to avoid playing the opening that you lost
>>>>>and when you are not in position that you lost I suggest to ignore the big book.
>>>>>
>>>>>I do not expect engines to follow a big book that is full of blunders.
>>>>>There is no reason to do it if the engine can use time to find better moves in
>>>>>the opening.
>>>>
>>>>The word "blunder" may not be appropriate, here.
>>>>There were opening lines in history which had been refuted after years of active
>>>>play. You can't expect an engine to find these in a few minutes.
>>>
>>>I believe that if the engine cannot find it in few minutes there is a serious
>>>problem in the engines and the programmers should work to improve the engine.
>>>
>>>computers should be able to do in minutes what humans do in years so the claim
>>>that they were refuted after years of active play does not convince me.
>>
>>Ok let me quote you on this later. You are saying here that all
>>grandmaster are 'dumb idiots', because a computer can do in 2 minutes
>>what years of study and research has not shown?
>>
>>That's not true of course. they are not idiots. An engine cannot find
>>in 2 minutes what their hard practice has shown in years.
>>
>>Openings theory improves and improves each year. It is impossible to
>>just claim a 2 minute analysis is in advance going to improve upon them.
>>
>>Or do you *really* think that a few hundreds of persons on this planet
>>are wasting their time playing chess?
>
>computers can calculate in 2 minutes what humans need more than few years to
>calculate.
>
>Computers are simply faster than humans and everything that human can do
>computers can do faster if people write the right programs.

Sounds like a religion.
Do you really believe in this ?

Uli

>
>Uri



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