Author: Bas Hamstra
Date: 16:05:28 08/25/02
Go up one level in this thread
On August 25, 2002 at 18:42:08, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >On August 25, 2002 at 18:36:15, Bas Hamstra wrote: > >>>>This is the book issue again. The F7 book is probably a significant advantage, >>>>should any amateur program be allowed to play with it in tournaments? Is it >>>>unfair? At first sight yes, but at second sight it is not so easy. Did Frans >>>>Morsch develop the Fritz book himself? No, he has help from top-specialists. >>>>Same for Tiger and Rebel. Now is THAT fair? Competing in CC tournments, >>>>supposedly meant to determine which ENGINE is strongest, where the happy few >>>>have the fulltime help of book specialists, but NOT the lousy amateurs? >>>> >>>>One other thing: If I go to the shop and buy Fritz, I am allowed to use it. I >>allowed to hook my own engine up. Why shouldn't I be allowed to use it in a >>>>computer chess tournament? It's MY Fritz, I bought it... >>>> >>>>The copyright issue is also not easy at all. Does anyone seriously think >>Noomen does NOT look at other books? How come ALL the obscure, speculative, >>>>tricky, HAND-TYPED Cock the Gorter lines are in other commercial books >>>>the refutations? Vincent noticed this, and so do I. Technically, if I copy an >>>>existing book "collection" and add three new lines, it's MY collection. Ask >>juro's. >>>> >>>>I know of CC tournaments where participants complained they had to play against >>>>the same book three or more times which they didn't like. Not exactly ideal. >>>> >>>>WHAT is fair??? >>> >>>Fair is to compete with your own stuff. If i go to world champs athletics >>>and i take with myself a new pair of shoes, trouser and shirt. >>>Then it is UNFAIR if some professional athlete joins under the name >>>Vincent Diepeveen with my shoes and shirt and trouser. >>> >>>Because it isn't Vincent Diepeveen. I wouldn't be capable of even >>>starting at the same speed. >>> >>>Now what they do on the SSDF list is of course one big commercial thing, >>>but more interested i am what happens at tournametns. If you have a team >>>that makes a book and engine, and you compete with it. GREAT. >>> >>>If you make a book, learning , GUI and other things and use the fritz7 >>>engine, NOT FINE. >>>If you make an engine and use from others a GUI, book , learning, NOT FINE. >>> >>>Please compete with your own thing. Don't compete with other peoples stuff. >>> >>>Kure and Arturo and Jeroen have put each independant more time in their >>>book and Mathias has put more time in learning, making book code and >>>GUI than you did in your engine. >>> >>>It's not fair if you misuse that under the name 'tao'. If Jeroen is >>>a teammember of you and gives you permission to use your >>>book and you get sold by schroeder and you list Jeroen as your >>>teammember, fine with me. >> >>Good idea, to list the team-members, they really deserve the honour, I agree >>100%. Since I am going to buy Fritz, and am therefore entitled to use this >>package for personal use (such as in a CC tournament where I myself operate) my >>team-members will be: M. Feist (gui, book-learning), A. Kure (book), E. Nalimov >>(tb), B. Hamstra (engine). >> >>So now everything is ok? I listed the team-members and made perfectly clear it >>is a team effort. >> >>Best regards, >>Bas. > >What you do at fics is your matter, but computerchess tournaments has >rules. A big rule is to have your own stuff, which involved permission >of the book author. > >This means you can't join world champs with the above.
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