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Subject: Re: developing Junior (and other pro programs)

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 10:12:33 09/02/02

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On September 02, 2002 at 06:49:34, Tony Werten wrote:

>On September 01, 2002 at 23:47:17, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On September 01, 2002 at 13:44:45, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
>>
>>>On September 01, 2002 at 13:26:44, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>pawn=32 in fritz seemingly. that's all you need to know to consider
>>>>>it works for it.
>>>>
>>>>What does that do?  I have seen large positional scores out of fritz,
>>>>which suggests (to me) that mtd(f) could cause some problems...
>>>
>>>That means that Fritz has a low evaluation granulatiry, which keeps the
>>>number of MTD passes to a minimum. There's some disagreement here between
>>>Vincent and the rest of the world exactly how much this matters, but it
>>>does matter for sure.
>>>
>>>Positional scores have nothing to do with this, I don't know where you
>>>got that.
>>>
>>>--
>>>GCP
>>
>>I have no idea what you are talking about above.  The problem that mtd(f)
>>encounters is with an eval that fluctuates significantly iteration to iteration.
>>That fluctuation is _not_ an issue of pawn values.  It is an issue of
>>positional scores.  You could have pawn = 10000 if your positional scores
>>don't vary much.  But if they vary by more than a pawn, you will have trouble
>>no matter what...
>>
>>reducing the score range by a factor of 3 will help _some_.  But only _some_.
>>
>>But when a program can produce scores with the positional component well over
>>two pawns, I don't think the actual pawn value has much effect on how mtd(f)
>>performs...  the constantly shifting eval is going to cause lots of re-searches,
>>from experience.,..
>
>If the score difference is .25 of a pawn then with pawn=32 you need 8 mtd
>researches, with pawn=1000 you need 250. Or am I mising something ?
>
>Tony


Yes.  but suppose the positional scores are +/= three pawns, as I have seen
out of fritz?

And of course nobody would do 250 searches, there are better algorithms since
fail-soft gives you a better bound for the next attempt, rather than simply
adding one if you fail high...



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