Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: More on the "bad math" after an important email...

Author: Georg v. Zimmermann

Date: 01:22:55 09/04/02

Go up one level in this thread


Hi Roger,

I am not taking side here but your post scares me a bit.

Shouldnt we first look at content and then at presentation ? Vincents "bad
taste" does not change facts at all.
Nor do his motives.

I can simply not understand nor follow the argumentation " Dr.Hyatt is a great
guy and therefore we may not critisize errors/bad science/carelesness/fraud
[select one] in his papers.


Kind regards,

Georg v. Zimmermann



On September 04, 2002 at 01:34:18, Roger D Davis wrote:

>Sorry Vincent, but this whole affair was presented in remarkable bad taste. In
>my mind you've only damaged your own character and reputation: I find it odd
>that someone who purports to have such extreme sensitivity to the truth could
>have such insensitivity in regard to its presentation, and that certainly causes
>me to doubt the sincerity of your motives.
>
>Roger
>
>
>
>On September 03, 2002 at 23:52:41, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>
>>On September 03, 2002 at 21:18:17, Roger D Davis wrote:
>>
>>sorry, but chess is an exact science. You have a speedup of 1.9 or you don't
>>have a speedup of 1.9. It is very easy to measure. It is very easy to
>>cheat by modifying it to 2.0 too.
>>
>>If it is modified, then sometimes statistical analysis can show that
>>very clearly.
>>
>>In this case it does.
>>
>>Don't comapre with something that is not exact science please.
>>
>>You have a 2.0 speedup or you don't have a 2.0 speedup. hardware doesn't
>>matter. Lies matter here. In this case modified search times to cover up
>>a problem of 1-8 processors versus 16 processors.
>>
>>I am not here to tell you about the computer it ran on. I am here to
>>show that there is a problem with the results written down.
>>
>>You can discuss results because: "such a good speedup can't happen",
>>or "such a bad speedup is unexaplainable".
>>
>>But we can't discuss about this. It's a clear case of fraud. Nothing else.
>>
>>
>>>I can tell you honestly that if I had to go back to my dissertation and
>>>replicate my results, I doubt that I could do it. Just too much water under the
>>>bridge. My memory is far to foggy to go back to all that data and all those
>>>print outs, put everything back together again, and justify this or that
>>>decision. My experience as a psychological researcher is that a lot of arbitrary
>>>decisions are made on the way to some single statistic that presumably has
>>>meaning. And then someone on your committee comes along and wants this or that
>>>changed, and you do it because you need to show respect for senior professors,
>>>although you might not agree at all. Every dissertation is the product of
>>>compromise between a student and his committee. Likewise, most published
>>>articles are the product of compromise between an author and the referees. The
>>>process of science often introduces distortions that the author never intended,
>>>including logical inconsistencies between one section of a document and another.
>>>And that's just life.
>>>
>>>Roger
>>>
>>>
>>>On September 03, 2002 at 20:48:08, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
>>>
>>>>On September 03, 2002 at 20:20:48, Roger D Davis wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Wow, this comment is in exceptionally bad taste. You don't question the
>>>>>scientific integrity of a researcher lightly, particularly in a public forum.
>>>>
>>>>I was responding to this post from Robert:
>>>>
>>>>---quote----
>>>>
>>>>[snip]... But that
>>>>doesn't mean things were fabricated.
>>>>
>>>>But if you want to believe so, feel free.  It doesn't change a thing either
>>>>way...
>>>>
>>>>------------
>>>>
>>>>I don't know what exactly happend with the results. It seems from this thread
>>>>that even Robert doesn't know. Just because of this, no matter how they were
>>>>produced, I think they are questionable.
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>GCP



This page took 0.01 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.