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Subject: Re: More on the "bad math" after an important email...

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 05:47:59 09/04/02

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On September 04, 2002 at 08:11:28, Rolf Tueschen wrote:

>On September 04, 2002 at 07:57:35, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On September 04, 2002 at 07:15:42, Ralf Elvsén wrote:
>>
>>>On September 03, 2002 at 18:29:33, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
>>>
>>>>On September 03, 2002 at 18:15:50, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On September 03, 2002 at 18:03:14, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>However reasonable your explanations may be, the gist of your DTS article
>>>>>>and the most important thing for comparison were the speedup numbers. After
>>>>>>what we discovered and what you just posted, it is clear that they are
>>>>>>based on very shaky foundations.
>>>>>
>>>>>How so?  The speedup numbers were _directly_ computed by dividing times.
>>>>
>>>>But what times? Certainly not the times you reported. All we have is 5
>>>>speedup numbers that nobody every reproduced and likely will never
>>>>reproduce due to the hardware involved.
>>>>
>>>[SNIP]
>>>>
>>>>I don't know if you faked the results to look better or not. Maybe I don't
>>>>want to know. But whatever be of it, there is little scientific ground
>>>>to keep them standing, IMHO.
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>GCP
>>>
>>>The times should have been included, since they are the raw data. Moreover so,
>>>since some "unconventional" rounding seem to have been done when computing
>>>the speedups.
>>>
>>>However, regarding "reproducible" and "faked" , how would the inclusion of
>>>the times make you happier? They wouldn't be more or less reproducible than
>>>the speedups, and they could very well be faked (which I don't believe).
>>>
>>>Please don't mix the issues of poor data presentation with the scientific
>>>intergrity of the work.
>>>
>>>Ralf
>>
>>Of course it was possible to fake also
>>times without mistakes that people
>>are going to find.
>>
>>The point is that we usually trust
>>scientists not to do it but we also trust them
>>not to report wrong numbers.
>>
>>After finding that the numbers about time
>>were wrong the trust is broken.
>>
>>I do not say that the speed up were faked but
>>only that I do not know what to believe and
>>I agree with GCP that there is little scientific
>>ground to keep them standing.
>
>It's sad to read such sloppy remarks, Uri.
>You don't know what to believe, but you agree
>that there is little scientific ground...
>Is this sound reasoning for you?

Yes

Science is about proved things.
If the experiment cannot be reproduced then
we need to decide if to trust the authors.

In most cases I trust articles that
were published even without proofs but
in this case there are reasons not to do it.

>
>NB this is not about creating or joining parties,
>it's about some basic questions in science and
>logic too. At the moment nothing is proven.
>Something is looking odd, but Vincent spoke
>of lies and fakes and mass fraud. Are you
>supporting such verdicts?
>
>Rolf Tueschen

No

I supported GCP
I did not support Vincent's claims.

Uri



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