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Subject: Re: I can't believe this bashing is being allowed on here: "Bad Math Topic"

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 13:25:11 09/06/02

Go up one level in this thread


On September 06, 2002 at 15:47:24, Uri Blass wrote:

>On September 06, 2002 at 14:42:02, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On September 06, 2002 at 13:33:29, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>
>>>On September 05, 2002 at 14:06:08, Eugene Nalimov wrote:
>>>
>>>>Actually, often you don't want to search the objectively best move first. You
>>>>want to search the move that will cause a beta cutoff and will result in a
>>>>smallest subtree being searched.
>>>
>>>Not really, the best move is usually best, because usually the
>>>problem of *a move* cutting off is shown next iteration by major
>>>overhead. So at this iteration i a move could cutoff in very little
>>>nodes, but if it next iteration fails low it obviously is a whole
>>>subtree you researched.
>>
>>
>>Would you _please_ think a bit before jumping in?  Eugene's statement is a
>>direct premise of any tree searching program based on alpha/beta.  Do the
>>least amount of work possible.  Given a set of N moves that will produce a
>>cutoff (fail high) and another set M that will not... If you search any moves
>>in M first, you waste time and effort and slow down.  If you search any move in
>>N you get a cutoff and are done.  How can it _not_ be best to pick the one that
>>requires the least effort to fail high?  Because once you fail high at a node,
>>you are _finished_ there..
>
>If this iteration is the last iteration you are right.
>The point is that if the iteration is not the last iteration you may prefer
>to have a move with bigger tree if it means that the tree for the same position
>is smaller in later iterations.


I disagree based on the "bird in the hand" proverb.

I have a "bird in the hand"...  I can cause a cutoff with minimal work.

I have "two birds in the bush"...  I will do a bit more work now and _might_
get a hash hit the next iteration that will save a little more.

Serendipity is not a good neighbor in computer chess.  Otherwise there are
probably _lots_ of things you could do _now_ to make the next iteration go
faster.  If you can get there...





>
>I do not know if the best move is usually best and I guess that things are also
>dependent in your pruning and extensions rules.
>
>You can also consider moves that force repetition as best if you get a cut off
>by 1 node thanks to them.
>
>Uri



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