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Subject: Re: Thanks John (NT)

Author: David Dahlem

Date: 05:26:29 09/07/02

Go up one level in this thread


On September 07, 2002 at 01:19:40, John Merlino wrote:

>On September 06, 2002 at 23:23:56, David Dahlem wrote:
>
>>On September 06, 2002 at 22:13:38, David Dahlem wrote:
>>
>>>On September 06, 2002 at 22:08:10, John Merlino wrote:
>>>
>>>>On September 06, 2002 at 21:53:58, John Merlino wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On September 06, 2002 at 21:39:16, David Dahlem wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On September 06, 2002 at 21:25:56, John Merlino wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On September 06, 2002 at 21:20:33, David Dahlem wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On September 06, 2002 at 21:16:35, John Merlino wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On September 06, 2002 at 21:14:50, David Dahlem wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Hi
>>>>>>>>>>I believe John Merlino said that in CM 9000 it would be possible to know the
>>>>>>>>>>solution times of the "Solve for Mate" option. I can't figure out how to know
>>>>>>>>>>the solution times. I tried the Mentor Lines window, but it appears to give
>>>>>>>>>>basically the same info as the regular Thinking Lines window. John, are you
>>>>>>>>>>there?
>>>>>>>>>>Regards
>>>>>>>>>>Dave
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>The solution time is displayed in the Mentor Lines window, along with the rest
>>>>>>>>>of the thinking output while the Solve for Mate feature (or any other mentor
>>>>>>>>>feature, such as Advice, Game Analysis, etc.) is running.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>jm
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Well, i tried that, John. But the Mentor Lines window shows the mates found long
>>>>>>>>before the "Solve for Mate" actually solves the mate. Maybe i am missing
>>>>>>>>something somewhere?
>>>>>>>>Regards
>>>>>>>>Dave
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Send me the position you are using, so I can see what you are talking about.
>>>>>>>Also send me the exact steps you are doing in the interface.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>jm
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Hi John
>>>>>>Here is one of the positions i tried, a mate in 6.
>>>>>>6k1/R2b1p2/3N1npp/3p4/3P4/4PN2/2Q2PPP/6K1 w - - 0 1
>>>>>>With both players human, i went to edit/paste/Forsythe Board Position and pasted
>>>>>>the position. The Mentor Lines window has to be opened first, since there is no
>>>>>>way to open it after "Solve for Mate" has started. I get the following in the
>>>>>>Mentor Lines window, and Solve for Mate still hadn't solved the mate after two
>>>>>>minutes, so i stopped it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Time	Depth	Score	Positions	Moves
>>>>>>0:00	1/8	Mate07	100162		1.Nxf7 Kf8 2.Qxg6 Ke7 3.Nd6 Ke6
>>>>>>					4.Qf7+ Kxd6 5.Qxf6+ Be6 6.Qe7+
>>>>>>					Kc6 7.Qc5#
>>>>>>0:01	2/9	Mate07	172016		1.Nxf7 Kf8 2.Qxg6 Ke7 3.Nd6 Ke6
>>>>>>					4.Qf7+ Kxd6 5.Qxf6+ Be6 6.Qe7+
>>>>>>					Kc6 7.Qc5#
>>>>>>0:05	3/10	Mate06	1036080		1.Nxf7 Kf8 2.N7e5 Ke7 3.Qc8 Ke6
>>>>>>					4.Rxd7 Nxd7 5.Qxd7+ Kf6 6.Qf7#
>>>>>>0:12	4/11	Mate06	2731461		1.Nxf7 Kf8 2.N7e5 Ke7 3.Qc8 Ke6
>>>>>>					4.Rxd7 Nxd7 5.Qxd7+ Kf6 6.Qf7#
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Regards
>>>>>>Dave
>>>>>
>>>>>Well, it appears we have our first bug. Congratulations! Apparently the Solve
>>>>>for Mate feature has some issues.
>>>>>
>>>>>This will be addressed in the next patch. Until then, you CAN view the output of
>>>>>this feature in the Mentor Lines window. You will notice that, when this feature
>>>>>is running, the X and Y values in the "Depth" column are always the same number,
>>>>>such as 1/1, 3/3, 5/5, etc. When I run this feature on the above position (on my
>>>>>PIII-600), it reports Mate in 6 in 17 seconds. When I use the default engine to
>>>>>analyse this position, the Mentor Lines window reports mate in 6 after 8
>>>>>seconds.
>>>>>
>>>>>So, although the Solve for Mate feature itself may never actually announce that
>>>>>it has found a mate, you can always see its output in the Mentor Lines window.
>>>>>
>>>>>We apologize for that....
>>>>>
>>>>>jm
>>>>
>>>>Well, maybe it isn't a bug after all. But I would definitely file it under
>>>>"potential design flaw". What happens with the Solve for Mate feature is that if
>>>>the engine finds a mate at a certain depth, it CONTINUES searching all other
>>>>moves at that depth. So, the unfortunate result of this feature's behavior is
>>>>that, even though the engine finds a mate in 6 after 18 seconds, it doesn't
>>>>FINISH with that depth until 4:18!! At THAT point the Solve for Mate dialog will
>>>>announce the mate.
>>>>
>>>>I am going to discuss this with Johan, and I suspect that the result will be
>>>>that the first mate found will trigger the announcement, rather than reaching
>>>>the end of that entire depth's search.
>>>>
>>>>jm
>>>
>>>I am wondering more about this. I get the same solution time in the Mentor Lines
>>>window without starting the Solve for Mate. But also notice it first says mate
>>>in 7, in both cases. Isn't this the same thing that the regular Thinking Lines
>>>window does. As we discussed in a previous thread, isn't this the same as
>>>regular analyze mode, not necessarily showing the shortest mate. I will test
>>>this on some known longer mates.
>>>Regards
>>>Dave
>>
>>I did some testing with a few longer known mates, and i think the reason what i
>>copied to the clipboard from the previous position first shows a mate in 7, is
>>because it's not possible to copy the contents of the Mentor Lines window to the
>>clipboard, or do anything else at all, while Solve for Mate is running. Stopping
>>Solve for Mate causes the Mentor Lines window to revert back to regular
>>analysis. Also once Solve for Mate announces a solution, the Mentor Lines window
>>reverts back to regular analysis. So copying the contents of the Mentor Lines
>>window only shows regular analysis, not Solve for Mate analysis. It is possible
>>to constantly watch the Mentor Lines window and visually see the solution time
>>for Solve for Mate. But if it solves the mate while i have gone for coffee, the
>>solution time is lost. :(
>>This is less than ideal, if a user wants to know the solution time.
>>Also, what is the default hash size for the Mentor engine, and is possible to
>>change it?
>>Regards
>>Dave
>
>Assuming this is addressed in the patch, when a mate is announced, we will also
>make sure that the time and depth are displayed as well.
>
>Also, you can change the hash size of the mentor engine by going to "Preferences
>-> Mentor".
>
>jm



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