Author: David Dahlem
Date: 05:26:29 09/07/02
Go up one level in this thread
On September 07, 2002 at 01:19:40, John Merlino wrote: >On September 06, 2002 at 23:23:56, David Dahlem wrote: > >>On September 06, 2002 at 22:13:38, David Dahlem wrote: >> >>>On September 06, 2002 at 22:08:10, John Merlino wrote: >>> >>>>On September 06, 2002 at 21:53:58, John Merlino wrote: >>>> >>>>>On September 06, 2002 at 21:39:16, David Dahlem wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On September 06, 2002 at 21:25:56, John Merlino wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On September 06, 2002 at 21:20:33, David Dahlem wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On September 06, 2002 at 21:16:35, John Merlino wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On September 06, 2002 at 21:14:50, David Dahlem wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Hi >>>>>>>>>>I believe John Merlino said that in CM 9000 it would be possible to know the >>>>>>>>>>solution times of the "Solve for Mate" option. I can't figure out how to know >>>>>>>>>>the solution times. I tried the Mentor Lines window, but it appears to give >>>>>>>>>>basically the same info as the regular Thinking Lines window. John, are you >>>>>>>>>>there? >>>>>>>>>>Regards >>>>>>>>>>Dave >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>The solution time is displayed in the Mentor Lines window, along with the rest >>>>>>>>>of the thinking output while the Solve for Mate feature (or any other mentor >>>>>>>>>feature, such as Advice, Game Analysis, etc.) is running. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>jm >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Well, i tried that, John. But the Mentor Lines window shows the mates found long >>>>>>>>before the "Solve for Mate" actually solves the mate. Maybe i am missing >>>>>>>>something somewhere? >>>>>>>>Regards >>>>>>>>Dave >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Send me the position you are using, so I can see what you are talking about. >>>>>>>Also send me the exact steps you are doing in the interface. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>jm >>>>>> >>>>>>Hi John >>>>>>Here is one of the positions i tried, a mate in 6. >>>>>>6k1/R2b1p2/3N1npp/3p4/3P4/4PN2/2Q2PPP/6K1 w - - 0 1 >>>>>>With both players human, i went to edit/paste/Forsythe Board Position and pasted >>>>>>the position. The Mentor Lines window has to be opened first, since there is no >>>>>>way to open it after "Solve for Mate" has started. I get the following in the >>>>>>Mentor Lines window, and Solve for Mate still hadn't solved the mate after two >>>>>>minutes, so i stopped it. >>>>>> >>>>>>Time Depth Score Positions Moves >>>>>>0:00 1/8 Mate07 100162 1.Nxf7 Kf8 2.Qxg6 Ke7 3.Nd6 Ke6 >>>>>> 4.Qf7+ Kxd6 5.Qxf6+ Be6 6.Qe7+ >>>>>> Kc6 7.Qc5# >>>>>>0:01 2/9 Mate07 172016 1.Nxf7 Kf8 2.Qxg6 Ke7 3.Nd6 Ke6 >>>>>> 4.Qf7+ Kxd6 5.Qxf6+ Be6 6.Qe7+ >>>>>> Kc6 7.Qc5# >>>>>>0:05 3/10 Mate06 1036080 1.Nxf7 Kf8 2.N7e5 Ke7 3.Qc8 Ke6 >>>>>> 4.Rxd7 Nxd7 5.Qxd7+ Kf6 6.Qf7# >>>>>>0:12 4/11 Mate06 2731461 1.Nxf7 Kf8 2.N7e5 Ke7 3.Qc8 Ke6 >>>>>> 4.Rxd7 Nxd7 5.Qxd7+ Kf6 6.Qf7# >>>>>> >>>>>>Regards >>>>>>Dave >>>>> >>>>>Well, it appears we have our first bug. Congratulations! Apparently the Solve >>>>>for Mate feature has some issues. >>>>> >>>>>This will be addressed in the next patch. Until then, you CAN view the output of >>>>>this feature in the Mentor Lines window. You will notice that, when this feature >>>>>is running, the X and Y values in the "Depth" column are always the same number, >>>>>such as 1/1, 3/3, 5/5, etc. When I run this feature on the above position (on my >>>>>PIII-600), it reports Mate in 6 in 17 seconds. When I use the default engine to >>>>>analyse this position, the Mentor Lines window reports mate in 6 after 8 >>>>>seconds. >>>>> >>>>>So, although the Solve for Mate feature itself may never actually announce that >>>>>it has found a mate, you can always see its output in the Mentor Lines window. >>>>> >>>>>We apologize for that.... >>>>> >>>>>jm >>>> >>>>Well, maybe it isn't a bug after all. But I would definitely file it under >>>>"potential design flaw". What happens with the Solve for Mate feature is that if >>>>the engine finds a mate at a certain depth, it CONTINUES searching all other >>>>moves at that depth. So, the unfortunate result of this feature's behavior is >>>>that, even though the engine finds a mate in 6 after 18 seconds, it doesn't >>>>FINISH with that depth until 4:18!! At THAT point the Solve for Mate dialog will >>>>announce the mate. >>>> >>>>I am going to discuss this with Johan, and I suspect that the result will be >>>>that the first mate found will trigger the announcement, rather than reaching >>>>the end of that entire depth's search. >>>> >>>>jm >>> >>>I am wondering more about this. I get the same solution time in the Mentor Lines >>>window without starting the Solve for Mate. But also notice it first says mate >>>in 7, in both cases. Isn't this the same thing that the regular Thinking Lines >>>window does. As we discussed in a previous thread, isn't this the same as >>>regular analyze mode, not necessarily showing the shortest mate. I will test >>>this on some known longer mates. >>>Regards >>>Dave >> >>I did some testing with a few longer known mates, and i think the reason what i >>copied to the clipboard from the previous position first shows a mate in 7, is >>because it's not possible to copy the contents of the Mentor Lines window to the >>clipboard, or do anything else at all, while Solve for Mate is running. Stopping >>Solve for Mate causes the Mentor Lines window to revert back to regular >>analysis. Also once Solve for Mate announces a solution, the Mentor Lines window >>reverts back to regular analysis. So copying the contents of the Mentor Lines >>window only shows regular analysis, not Solve for Mate analysis. It is possible >>to constantly watch the Mentor Lines window and visually see the solution time >>for Solve for Mate. But if it solves the mate while i have gone for coffee, the >>solution time is lost. :( >>This is less than ideal, if a user wants to know the solution time. >>Also, what is the default hash size for the Mentor engine, and is possible to >>change it? >>Regards >>Dave > >Assuming this is addressed in the patch, when a mate is announced, we will also >make sure that the time and depth are displayed as well. > >Also, you can change the hash size of the mentor engine by going to "Preferences >-> Mentor". > >jm
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