Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Extensions in the PV

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 15:02:38 08/19/98

Go up one level in this thread


On August 19, 1998 at 15:16:59, Dan Homan wrote:

>Yesterday I asked a question on ICC about extending simply
>for being in the principle variation, the idea being to detect threats a
>little earlier at the expense of possibly missing a good tactical shot.
>
>Bruce Moreland suggested that I test this with a tactical test
>suite to get an idea for how much tactical zip I lose by doing this, and
>to bin the results with respect to solution time to give additional
>information.  Below are the results of the test I ran.
>
>My implementation of the extension is to simply add some
>fractional ply extension if we are in a pv node at depth = 1 or
>depth = 0.  I determine if this a node is a pv node by simply
>comparing alpha and beta to the root values of alpha and
>beta.
>
>For my program it turns out that if I use 3/4 ply fractional extension,
>this adds 4 ply to a full pv line, and if I use a 2/3 ply extension, this
>adds 2 ply to a full pv line.
>
>To test this idea, I used the subset of the ECM suite posted by
>Jouni Uski a couple of days ago.  The total problem set is 231
>rather challenging problems.  I ran each problem for 60 seconds
>on my Compaq Presario at home (it has a strange processor, but
>as a practical matter is about 15% slower than a P133).
>
>Solutions were only counted as correct if they were held until the
>end of the 60 seconds search period.
>
>Here is a table of the problem solution times for a 4 ply effective
>extension in the pv, a 2 ply effective extension, and no extension.
>
>                                             # of problems solved
>time bin                    No pv             2 ply pv          4 ply pv
>(seconds)              extension         extension       extension
>
>0 - 15                         30                     30                 25
>16-30                         17                     13                 20
>31-45                         13                     13                 12
>46-60                           5                       8                   4
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                   totals      65                      64                 61
>
>So, as a general rule, the extension slows down the solution
>times.  In order to gauge this properly I would also need a good
>"avoid move" testsuite to see if the pv extension would
>substantially decrease the amount of time to see that a tempting
>move is really bad.
>
>  - Dan
>
>P.S.  My game results on ICC seem no worse with the extension than
>without it, but I am not sure that it is better.



This has been done in two "flavors" over the past 30 years or so:

#1 was suggested by no less than Richard Greenblatt and used in the mid-
60's...  after computing a "new PV" (ie after backing a score up to the
root) before saving the PV/score, first step back down to the end of the
PV, and from that point, do a 2-ply search.  If the score is worse, use
the new score and see if it is better than the old "best".  If not, toss it,
if yes remember this as a new PV.  If the two ply search "raises" the score,
ignore the new value and use the value you computed for this PV with the
normal search.

Justification:  extend the PV to see if you are doing something that is
simply pushing something bad beyond the horizon.  If so, the two ply search
might reveal this with a lower score.  But if the score goes "up" it is
very speculative and can't be trusted.

Results:  I tried this in the early 70's myself, and found it was nothing
more than a big way to waste time.

#2 is the so-called PV extension.  The question is, what is the justification
for searching *just* the PV nodes to a deeper depth than the others?  The
answer is there isn't, and it is also simply a way to slow you down.  It
might find an occasional tactic quicker, but it is generally slower...

My recommendation:  toss this too...  extending "just because" has to be
bad...



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.