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Subject: Re: Testmethods for n=0, n=1 and n=>800 - For Beginners and 'old Hands'

Author: Dave Gomboc

Date: 09:43:36 09/13/02

Go up one level in this thread


On September 13, 2002 at 11:54:04, Uri Blass wrote:

>On September 13, 2002 at 11:31:10, Rolf Tueschen wrote:
>
>>On September 13, 2002 at 11:17:20, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On September 13, 2002 at 11:16:07, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>
>>>>On September 13, 2002 at 11:06:57, Rolf Tueschen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On September 13, 2002 at 10:56:10, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On September 13, 2002 at 10:38:17, Rolf Tueschen wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I disagree.
>>>>>>>>Most of the population of chess programs is clearly weaker than the top
>>>>>>>>programs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Gnuchess is losing against crafty even if you give gnuchess hardware that is 10
>>>>>>>>times faster if the time control is slow enough and gnuchess is not a weak
>>>>>>>>program but at the level of the average amateur.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Uri
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I agree. This was chapter one though. Seems fair enough that GNU which has no
>>>>>>>clue about endgames, tablebases, not even GM books, and then being amateur, is
>>>>>>>weaker than Crafty. Was GNU ever tuned on Crafty? I mean if I would take GNU as
>>>>>>>a pro I would make at least 8th place in SSDF out of it. But actually we are
>>>>>>>comparing apples and beans. GNU is not of "this" world now. BTW I played
>>>>>>>SIBIRIAN, for that nice prog I promissed you the same! Implement all the modern
>>>>>>>stuff and it will play billy bully with FRITZ, I suppose. Not even needing
>>>>>>>tablebases. Cough.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Rolf Tueschen
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I have to disagree again.
>>>>>>I do not know how the book of gnuchess was build but it is not so bad and it has
>>>>>>a lot of variety.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I do not think that gnu lose games because of book.
>>>>>>Tablebases are also not very important.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Gnu is going to lose also against list inspite of the fact that list has no book
>>>>>>and not because of tablebases advantage.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Gnu need better search rules and better evaluation in order to be in the same
>>>>>>level of the top programs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Uri
>>>>>
>>>>>Again I must agree. Since all modern progs are founded on these free (?) sources
>>>>>by defintion they are stronger. How could they be weaker? That is the same with
>>>>>the pro's which were all founded in parts on CRAFTY. How could CRAFTY still be
>>>>>stronger?
>>>>
>>>>The pro are not based on crafty and crafty clearly has knowledge that most pro
>>>>do not have.
>>
>>To specify this I have to change it into "all new and working ideas" in Crafty
>>have been noted by the pros and they will surely have found a way to implement
>>the idea into their own prog. I didn't mean that thy simply copied the code,
>>which could be understood because I wrote "free sources". What I meant was ideas
>>that could be examined because they were published in public. Please correct me
>>if that is impossible for reasons unknown to me. Also I din't mean that the pros
>>were just waiting for news spreading out of Bob's working kitchen. Of course
>>they make their own inventions too. At least I think so.
>>
>>Rolf Tueschen
>
>I know that at least part of the pro did not do it.
>I know that Ed only in the last Rebel reinvented the internal iterative
>deepening.
>
>He was surprised to find that this idea is used in crafty.
>
>He looked at the comments in the crafty code some years ago but he missed
>the comment about internal iterative deepening.
>
>He did not look at the crafty source code later based on my knowledge.
>
>I know that other programmers also did not learn the ideas in the crafty
>code.
>I think that the main problem is to understand it.
>
>It is not easy to understand the crafty code and programmers prefer to use their
>time to try their ideas instead of trying to understand the crafty code.
>
>Uri


Ed's IID is different than traditional IID, though.

Dave



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