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Subject: Re: Testmethods for n=0, n=1 and n=>800 - For Beginners and 'old Hands'

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 09:52:13 09/13/02

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On September 13, 2002 at 12:30:49, Rolf Tueschen wrote:

>On September 13, 2002 at 11:57:50, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On September 13, 2002 at 11:25:15, Rolf Tueschen wrote:
>>
>>>On September 13, 2002 at 11:15:32, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
>>>
>>>>On September 13, 2002 at 11:06:57, Rolf Tueschen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Again I must agree. Since all modern progs are founded on these free (?) >sources by defintion they are stronger. How could they be weaker?
>>>>
>>>>Reality, it seems, does not quite agree with you.
>>>>
>>>>But don't let that stop you.
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>GCP
>>>
>>>Sorry. Then let me change the statement into: For the professionals the openly
>>>published code of Crafty is understandable in its details. (yes/no)
>>
>>I believe that at least for part of them if not for all of them the answer is
>>no.
>>
>>Uri
>
>Really, I don't know where the dificulty is for you, Uri.
>In a public listing all theae questions are discussed in public.
>Just go for it. There are no secrets. What is only forbidden that is the copying
>of code. Of course pros must think about the ideas in Crafty! It's _their_ money
>he'll lose if they don't. Ok, with a grain of salt.

I know and there are discussion about it but If I decide to understand
everything in crafty and ask questions about the source code this process can
take a long time.

I understand some ideas that are used in Crafty but I am not close to understand
everything.

I believe that I have ideas to do things better but it is better if I learn more
about programming before trying to do them.

>
>But let's take the opportunity and push the debate a bit forward.
>
>As in science there are actual tendencies. And if not Einstein or Bob then
>Heisenberg or Uri are the first to develop the new idea. In fact it's rather
>seldom that some individual could find something completely out of reach (or we
>would call it SF) for the time being. NB that certain ideas of you are only
>"possible" to implement IF the necessary hardware is there or you've made the
>necessary progress in other parts etc. In short, the belief that the top idea of
>a time came out of the blue just by chance or was only possible to grow in XY,
>this belief is pure magic. If you or me were on the right place, with the right
>education, with the right team, with the right woman at our side (see Einstein!)
>(see the new Shirov 2002 :)) things will happen quite easily.
>
>The example of Vincent proves one thing, at least to me. He has all it takes to
>become a winner in CC but I think he has also something that will prevent it. In
>short: he has difficulties to listen carefully what other people say.

I agree about it.

>But to be
>on the top of any field you must digest all of the tradition and then, only
>then, doing your own thing. Earlier, if you do it this way, you could only
>succeed by chance.


I do not think that the way to go is to understand first everything that is done
by other people.

I need to learn about ideas that were done by other people but I do not think
that I need to understand the meaning of every variable in Crafty before writing
my program and without it I cannot say that the openly
published code of Crafty is understandable in its details for me.


 Actually, the hardware aspects are so dominant in CC, that
>Vincent can not be blamed for his performance in Maastricht.
>
>Rolf Tueschen

My opinion is that there can be a break through in computer chess.
I believe that the top program has potential to be 200 elo better if people
think about the right ideas.

Uri



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