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Subject: Re: hash entry replacement schemes (more)

Author: José Carlos

Date: 04:46:10 09/15/02

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On September 14, 2002 at 23:37:59, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On September 14, 2002 at 23:34:58, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On September 14, 2002 at 19:19:43, martin fierz wrote:
>>
>>>On September 14, 2002 at 18:27:13, Miguel A. Ballicora wrote:
>>>
>>>>On September 14, 2002 at 15:39:54, martin fierz wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On September 14, 2002 at 13:27:12, Tony Werten wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On September 14, 2002 at 13:00:09, scott farrell wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I have been reading plenty on hash replacement schemes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I have read Breuker's thesis, and done some (slow) searching through the CCC
>>>>>>>archives.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I am going over my code and redoing the hashing parts, only to realise I have
>>>>>>>borken IID (internal iterative deepening).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Now I am unsure of what I should be aiming at in relation to hashing code.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I am also unsure of exactly what multi-probing the hash tables is. I am guessing
>>>>>>>there is still only one hashtable, and different equations to go from
>>>>>>>key/checkkey to the hashtable index, so that there can be several alternative
>>>>>>>slots that a hash entry for a position could appear at. Is Multi-probe just
>>>>>>>aiming at reducing collisions - or is the idea to store more than one hash entry
>>>>>>>for popular positions (say 1 for "depth based", and one for "replace always")?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I think I am correct that I need atleast one of the probes as "replace always"
>>>>>>>to get IID to work. What else do I need to guarantee that I get the best moves
>>>>>>>from IID backed up to the main search?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>When people say "replace always" do that mean literaly, just store it all the
>>>>>>>time? It seems over simplistic - but I tried it, and it works pretty much the
>>>>>>>same as my code below that tries to keep the deeper entries.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Any help apprecated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>What most people do is have 2 tables. In the first you only store if the
>>>>>>searchdepth >= table depth (and you move the former entry to the second table).
>>>>>>If not then store in 2nd table.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>i don't know about most people. crafty does that. i tried it in my checkers
>>>>>program, and it was always worse than using a single table. this is just an
>>>>>observation, not an explanation :-)
>>>>>i remember asking about this and IIRC dieter buerssner replied that he had also
>>>>>toyed with 2 tables and it didnt work for him either.
>>>>
>>>>Do you probe more than once? if you probe twice, it is similar to have two
>>>>tables.
>>>
>>>i probe twice. why would that be similar to the two-table approach?
>>>i always thought that the point of having two tables was to make sure that in
>>>the table for the important entries (close to the root) nothing ever gets
>>>overwritten. and in the second table you can use a simple scheme like always
>>>overwrite, and it won't hurt you because there are no important entries there.
>>>i'm always overwriting the less important of the two entries i probe. which can
>>>still be important - although it's rather unlikely, i admit. BTW, my single
>>>table needs 5-10% less nodes than the double table for my test set. and it's
>>>much simpler...
>
>This suggests a bug in your two-table approach.
>
>They really should be pretty close.  And if you copy the approach I use,
>it should be exactly as efficient.  If I replace the entry in the
>depth-preferred table, then I move the replaced entry to the always store
>table.  If not, I just store it in the always store.  In effect, I have a
>set of two entries, plus a third I need to add.  I keep the third plus the
>best of the other two.

  I've never tried it that way (I will) but I don't understand why it should be
better. The always replace table entry will probably soon be replaced, so it
won't help much keeping a depth-preferred node there. The always replace table
is mainly useful for locality, I mean, it's well known that in close branches at
low (remaining) depth many transpositions happen, and that's where the a.r.
table helps, I think. So I would say the old entry you had in the d.p. table
will be replaced much earlier than having a chance to be useful.
  Anyway, I'll try it and report difference here.

  José C.




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