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Subject: Re: How people could detect if a game was cooked?

Author: Rolf Tueschen

Date: 08:42:33 09/15/02

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On September 15, 2002 at 11:11:47, Chessfun wrote:

>On September 15, 2002 at 10:56:21, Rolf Tueschen wrote:
>
>>On September 15, 2002 at 10:50:30, Chessfun wrote:
>>
>>>I don't think I see data, I see questions. Questions I could answer but since my
>>>answers are not the answers of the person in question, it's easier to leave that
>>>to Thorsten.
>>>
>>>Sarah.
>>
>>I meant data, please. Is it so dificult. Of course I wrote many questions and
>>hypotheses, but I particularly was interested in your comments on my _data_ from
>>the Fritz analysis with my special configuration. Just a little question. But I
>>don't want to teach you about it.
>
>
>You had originally stated you checked with "FRITZ".
>I asked what version you didn't answer? but you now agree Fritz 7 would play
>Nxd5 at least it would on Thorstens machine and yours.
>
>When I say Fritz 7 to me that means the latest version 008, all that was missing
>was hash size in my case it was 192 mb. Clearly your 16 mb hash is too low for
>anything longer than analysis of about 30 seconds. Even then that mixed with
>your original I checked with "FRITZ", leaves me unsure you checked with 008.
>
>I didn't check back but am certain Thorsten is using more than 16 mb.
>
>Sarah.

Ah, now you got it. Look, I'm doing this for the first time because until now I
didn't know that the complete analysis could be saved in the scrolling mode. I
always saved the last line. The other problem is hash. I have 128 MB on the
machine, but if I give Fritz in CB8 too much MB the whole system is slowing
down. Not only CB but Internet too. Such a comment as your 30 sec with 16 MB is
a good help. I never had an idea before about these relations. Could I improve
my analyses with a different configuration for the engines? BTW what happens
when you change the engine? Is it necessary to close CB? Because I saw that
after the second change all things slowed down. And many features of the engines
didn't work no longer. Nowhere I saw a debate about that problem. So, let me
finally explain what is going on here. Of course I'm known for more general
questions. But when I begin to go into the details I'm also able to think about
the many important parameters. Only then I can ask real technical questions. So
please, don't take me wrong. The questions had nothing to do with Thorsten as
such. Thorsten is just the source I chose here because I know him from his
Computerschachwelt.

(Perhaps for your better understanding: In general I am interested in meta
problems although I play many games against progs myself. But testing with
autoplayer is not my favorite hobby. For a long time Thorsten was quite happy
that I wrote in his journal and forum. That was when he was defamed in all
German NGs. But then suddenly Thorsten became friends again with the CBits team.
From that moment on he began to censor my general articles in the forum. And he
preached that I should finally begin to test some progs like anybody else in CC!
I should download the alternative Arena gui and a free engine and begin. If I
wrote further meta-garbage he would censor me. Frank Quisinsky in his FCP wrote
the same nonsense. Either I started testing or he would delete other
contributions from my side. At that moment I had the idea to begin with a
critical analysis of Thorsten's tests. I wrote something where I could show that
I couldn't reproduce certain moves. His reaction was very arrogant "that it
didn't matter...". Here in CCC and everywhere he is now presenting his tuning
results with Rebel. Well, and I am completely lost with questions about the
details, because Thorsten doesn't present the data in context. Ok, fine, it's
his hobby, he can do what he wants. But it should be possible to ask questions.
But you can see how Thorsten reacts if I ask questions in his domain. He begins
to insult. All after the motto "Go away, this is my or our playyard. We were
here before you came." A nice contradiction to his earlier preaching.The point
is as always, critical remarks [and Thorsten is most famous for his records in
that direction, just take a look into his many political raves] are
misunderstood as a total denial of the value of one's activities which it isn't!
But don't hold your breath too long, you won't see me reacting in the same
style. It a sad thing to see someone suffer by mere presence of another guy who
wants to take part in the same hobby. That is a crisis in the deeper parts of
one's personality. But it cannot be that someone with such big problems could
define taboos for the topics here. And it shouldn't be allowed that someone
begins to insult if he's running out of arguments.)

I think that the analysis with Crafty 18.15 shows that Shredder seems to have a
specific weakness in that opening. And therefore such a game is of little value
for the tuning process of Rebel Macheide. Crafty is at 13/36 in the meantime and
always stable at Rd1! Not even once it tried Nxd5. Isn't it interesting? What
could be the reason? King safety?

Rolf Tueschen



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