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Subject: Re: hash entry replacement schemes

Author: Vincent Diepeveen

Date: 09:12:39 09/16/02

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On September 15, 2002 at 04:32:48, martin fierz wrote:

>On September 14, 2002 at 20:24:11, scott farrell wrote:
>
>>On September 14, 2002 at 19:19:43, martin fierz wrote:
>>
>>>On September 14, 2002 at 18:27:13, Miguel A. Ballicora wrote:
>>>
>>>>On September 14, 2002 at 15:39:54, martin fierz wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On September 14, 2002 at 13:27:12, Tony Werten wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On September 14, 2002 at 13:00:09, scott farrell wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I have been reading plenty on hash replacement schemes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I have read Breuker's thesis, and done some (slow) searching through the CCC
>>>>>>>archives.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I am going over my code and redoing the hashing parts, only to realise I have
>>>>>>>borken IID (internal iterative deepening).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Now I am unsure of what I should be aiming at in relation to hashing code.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I am also unsure of exactly what multi-probing the hash tables is. I am guessing
>>>>>>>there is still only one hashtable, and different equations to go from
>>>>>>>key/checkkey to the hashtable index, so that there can be several alternative
>>>>>>>slots that a hash entry for a position could appear at. Is Multi-probe just
>>>>>>>aiming at reducing collisions - or is the idea to store more than one hash entry
>>>>>>>for popular positions (say 1 for "depth based", and one for "replace always")?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I think I am correct that I need atleast one of the probes as "replace always"
>>>>>>>to get IID to work. What else do I need to guarantee that I get the best moves
>>>>>>>from IID backed up to the main search?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>When people say "replace always" do that mean literaly, just store it all the
>>>>>>>time? It seems over simplistic - but I tried it, and it works pretty much the
>>>>>>>same as my code below that tries to keep the deeper entries.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Any help apprecated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>What most people do is have 2 tables. In the first you only store if the
>>>>>>searchdepth >= table depth (and you move the former entry to the second table).
>>>>>>If not then store in 2nd table.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>i don't know about most people. crafty does that. i tried it in my checkers
>>>>>program, and it was always worse than using a single table. this is just an
>>>>>observation, not an explanation :-)
>>>>>i remember asking about this and IIRC dieter buerssner replied that he had also
>>>>>toyed with 2 tables and it didnt work for him either.
>>>>
>>>>Do you probe more than once? if you probe twice, it is similar to have two
>>>>tables.
>>>
>>>i probe twice. why would that be similar to the two-table approach?
>>>i always thought that the point of having two tables was to make sure that in
>>>the table for the important entries (close to the root) nothing ever gets
>>>overwritten. and in the second table you can use a simple scheme like always
>>>overwrite, and it won't hurt you because there are no important entries there.
>>>i'm always overwriting the less important of the two entries i probe. which can
>>>still be important - although it's rather unlikely, i admit. BTW, my single
>>>table needs 5-10% less nodes than the double table for my test set. and it's
>>>much simpler...
>>
>>Martin,
>>
>>I am very interested in your approach to multi-probe.
>>
>>Can you give more more details?
>>
>>How to you calculate the index for the second probe.
>
>index++;  :-)
>
>probably some people will say this is bad because of "clustering" - if you want
>to believe them just use something like (index+BIG_NUMBER)%tablesize. i don't
>believe it for a second though.

Yes i remember a few years ago the chaining argument a lot. In fact
chaining *happens* a lot. However the costs of not chaining with 8 probes
is like 7.400 = 2800 processor clocks or so EXTRA for a single lookup.

So the cost far outweighs the problem, especially a lot of probes completely
annihilate the problem.

The ++ construction is by far superior :)

>what is really important is that you have a test set which you let your program
>run on to fixed search depth and get some statistics on how it does compared to
>the old version. this has to be really simple to do, else you don't do it... and
>then you can check everything - what happens when you increase hashtable size?
>what happens when you use N probes? what happens when you change the replacement
>scheme? what happens when you change your move ordering? and so on.
>
>aloha
>  martin
>
>
>>Scott
>>
>>>
>>>aloha
>>>  martin
>>>
>>>>Regards,
>>>>Miguel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>aloha
>>>>>  martin
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Tony
>>>>>>
>>>>>>PS I advise you to create a structure and create an array of that. Your
>>>>>>implementation of serveral arrays kills the cache.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Here is some of my code
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
>>>>>>>// SET A TABLE ENTRY
>>>>>>>//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
>>>>>>>public final static void store(
>>>>>>>    int _depth,
>>>>>>>    int _value,
>>>>>>>    Move _best,
>>>>>>>    char _flag,
>>>>>>>    boolean _estOnly,
>>>>>>>    short _reqSE,
>>>>>>>    Board _b,
>>>>>>>    boolean usingSecondTE_notbeingused,
>>>>>>>    boolean _dontNullMove)
>>>>>>>{
>>>>>>>    int key= 0;
>>>>>>>    long checkKeyt= 0;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    if (_b.sideToMove == Board.BLACK)
>>>>>>>        {
>>>>>>>        key= ~_b.key & (size - 1);
>>>>>>>        checkKeyt= ~_b.checkKey;
>>>>>>>    } else
>>>>>>>        {
>>>>>>>        key= _b.key & (size - 1);
>>>>>>>        checkKeyt= _b.checkKey;
>>>>>>>    }
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    boolean collision=
>>>>>>>        checkKeyt != checkKey[key] && checkKey[key] != 0 && stale[key] == false;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    if (_best != null)
>>>>>>>        {
>>>>>>>            s1[key]= (byte) _best.s1;
>>>>>>>            s2[key]= (byte) _best.s2;
>>>>>>>        }
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    }
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    if (stale[key]
>>>>>>>        || (_depth > (int) depth[key])
>>>>>>>        || (_depth == (int) depth[key] && _flag > flag[key]))
>>>>>>>        {
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>        depth[key]= _depth;
>>>>>>>        value[key]= _value;
>>>>>>>        flag[key]= _flag;
>>>>>>>        SERequired[key]= _reqSE;
>>>>>>>        stale[key]= false;
>>>>>>>        checkKey[key]= checkKeyt;
>>>>>>>        dontNullMove[key]= _dontNullMove;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    } // end if replace
>>>>>>>    else
>>>>>>>        {
>>>>>>>        //       store2nd(_depth, _value, _best, _flag, _reqSE, _b,
>>>>>>>_dontNullMove);
>>>>>>>    }
>>>>>>>}



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