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Subject: Re:Where are the complete games of the autoplayer sessions day and night

Author: Rolf Tueschen

Date: 16:31:27 09/16/02

Go up one level in this thread


If you could only leave out the insults, your language would be much better.

But for this time I ask only the following question here:

WHERE ARE THE COMPLETE GAMES ??



On September 16, 2002 at 18:17:39, Thorsten Czub wrote:

>On September 16, 2002 at 17:38:42, Rolf Tueschen wrote:
>
>>I'm a bit astonished by such a tone here, Dann.
>
>
>:-)))
>
>
>
>>To answer your question I remind you of the point that I originally _thought_
>>that Thorsten posted or quoted the games, because they should "prove" or show
>>that the created new style played "stronger" than the default version.
>
>right.
>you play autoplayer games . yuo count the result. and when the result of the
>match is better, you have a stronger version. thats the ssdf-way.
>they do not value the HOW.
>
>since i valued the HOW, i knew the style is better. only i had to play
>autoplayer games to show that.
>
>the games have been published.

WHERE ARE THE COMPLETE GAMES ?

>
>you - unexperienced with autoplayer games (you have only 1 pc, right?)
>see the games and wonder about the openings.
>
>but thats all normal.
>so the problem is not the games, but YOUR relation to the information you see.
>
>
>
>> My
>>question was if such games, my 5 examples, could do that successfully.
>
>
>your examples show IMO nothing. all they show is how senseless it is to measure
>strength by autoplayer games.

WHERE ARE THE COMPLETE GAMES ?

>
>
>> I thought
>>'No'! If you doubt my original opinion then why these games were posted at all?
>
>
>WHY these games were played ??
>
>why do you buy a chess program when you do not understand about computerchess ??
>
>play with it. but do not post here. this is not a chess forum but a
>computerchess forum.
>
>the games have been played to prove that macheide is stronger then rebel.eng.

WHERE ARE THE COMPLETE GAMES ?


>
>you do this with an event. you make games. i do this with 2 pairs of machines.
>4 machines run day and night 40/120 level and produce data. this data is
>collected. the data is ordered, posted and there.
>in the same way XP rebel.eng played 10 games and lost 1-9 against fritz.
>
>style 51 will not lose that high. so it is stronger.
>logical, or ?
>
>now it could be 51 is a killer for fritz.
>therefore you try against all kind of other programs.
>
>again you play games .
>day and night.
>the machines do that almost automatically.
>in the end you count.

WHERE ARE THE COMPLETE GAMES ?


>
>thats all. thats the way it works.
>we have done this way with Chess System Tal
>(Chris had 4 autoplayer pairs in his company. One against genius, one against
>mchess, one against fritz ...).
>but each new version of program needs tuning.
>so you have to tune the parameters.
>thats a very difficult job. you have to find out how to set the weigthings.
>
>this is been done in the stage from version 1 of the style to version 56 of the
>style (in my case).
>
>in the end the program is tuned.
>
>>They stood in context of Thorsten's claim that his style was stronger against
>>Shredder ans so on. But the games don't prove it.
>
>the games prove it.

YOU WROTE YOURSELF THAT THE GAMES DIDN'T PROVE IT! MUST I SEARCH FOR THE MESSAGE
NUMBER? BUT AGAIN: WHERE ARE THE COMPLETE GAMES ?


>
>
>>I found that the games contained a cook against Shredder. Explanation: because
>>the Shredder book contained the weak line. What should this prove about the
>>Macheide style??? Nothing IMO.
>
>it should prove nothing in this game.
>but you do not play ONE game. you get it: you do NOT play ONE game.
>you make MORE than 1 game.

I'M NOT DEAF; THEREFORE I ASKED YOU: WHERE ARE THE COMPLETE GAMES YOU LET PLAY
NIGHT AND DAYS ??????????

YOU GOT ONLY THE ROUGHLY THIRTY GAMES?????????????????????????????


>
>
>>I asked a scientifically interesting (for me!!) question how people, I meant
>>all, could detect such cookes games in testing. Because it made the tests weaker
>>by definition! (Would you now doubt my scientific interest I showed from my
>>first posting on? Either about SSDF or the DB2 team.)
>
>
>opening books are part of the programs. or how do you think
>Alexander Kure, Jeroen Noomen or Vincent or Sandro spent their time here ?
>
>just for reading your great posts ?
>
>they work all day and night to find a book line and a position that is good
>for their programs.

YES; AND YOUR MACHEIDE REBEL IS STRONGER THAN REBEL BEFORE IF YOU CAN BEAT THE
OTHER PROGS BECAUSE OF A COOK IN THEIR BAD OPENING BOOK ????


>
>
>
>>They are cooked because of the opening book. And I thought I had made a valuable
>>_discovery_.
>
>
>????
>
>but its obvious. any chess player (who is capable to play chess !)
>sees this instantly when replaying the games, or ?
>
>this is your discovery ??
>
>oh man.
>
>>Just by playing through the lines. I found the examples.
>
>right. how else should it go. by asking nostradamus ?
>
>
>>Please do not lay bad intentions into my mouth when they definitely are not
>>there!
>
>nono. why should we ever lay bad intentions in your questions of a newbie.
>its all only a question.
>
>>Of course I thought that it was a bad thing for Thorsten to post these games,
>>but I did never even _insinuate_ that he tried to _cheat_ with them. For what
>>purpose should he have done it???
>
>the reason, you scientific expert  is , to present the data.
>you cannot leave out the games only because the opening was bad.
>if you leave them out, it would suggest a DIFFERENT judgement.

THEN WHERE ARE THE COMPLETE GAMES YOU PLAYED WITH AUTOPLAYER ??????


Rolf Tueschen



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