Author: Uri Blass
Date: 02:46:46 09/17/02
Go up one level in this thread
On September 17, 2002 at 04:48:24, Joachim Rang wrote:
>On September 17, 2002 at 04:25:01, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On September 17, 2002 at 03:55:12, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>Here is the relevant game with comments from previous post of nemethposted by
>>>Nemeth.
>>>
>>>I do not think that finding Re8 is a good test position because it probably
>>>leads to a draw like the game move.
>>>
>>>
>>>[Event "3/95-39 WDR Köln"]
>>>[Site "?"]
>>>[Date "1995.??.??"]
>>>[Round "?"]
>>>[White "Kasparov,G"]
>>>[Black "Pentium Genius"]
>>>[ECO "D15"]
>>>[Result "1-0"]
>>>
>>>1. c4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Nc3 a6 5. c5 g6 6. Bf4 Bg7
>>>7. h3 O-O 8. e3 Nbd7 9. Bd3 Ne8 (9... Re8 $6 10. Bh2 Nh5
>>>11. g4 Nhf6 12. Rc1 {verhindert e5 (Kasparov-Kudrin, Tel
>>>Aviv Simultan 1994)}) 10. Rc1 (10. O-O Nc7 11. Bg3 Re8
>>>12. Bh4 Bf6 13. Bxf6 exf6 14. e4 Nf8 15. Re1 Be6 16. Qd2
>>>Qd7 17. exd5 Bxd5 {van Wely-Paunovic, Hania 1993}) 10... f6
>>>11. e4 e5 12. dxe5 Nxc5 13. exd5 fxe5 14. Be3 (14. Bxe5
>>>Bxe5 15. Nxe5 Qg5 $19) 14... Nxd3+ 15. Qxd3 e4 16. Qxe4
>>>(16. Nxe4 Bf5 17. d6 Qa5+ 18. Nfd2 Qxa2 {unklar}) 16... Nf6
>>>17. Qc4 Nxd5 18. Nxd5 (18. O-O Bxh3 $5 19. Ng5 Bf5 20. Rfd1
>>>Bxc3 21. Rxc3 h6 22. Nf3 Kh7 {unklar}) 18... Be6 19. O-O
>>>Bxd5 20. Qg4 Bxf3 21. gxf3 Qd5 {_} 22. Rcd1 Qxa2 $2
>>>(22... Qxf3) (22... Qxf3) 23. Rd7 Rf7 (23... Qb3 $5 24. Bd4
>>>Bxd4 25. Qxd4 Rf7) (23... Qxb2 24. Qc4+ Kh8 25. Rxg7
>>>(25. Qh4 g5) 25... Qxg7 26. Bd4 Rf6 27. Qc3 Raf8 28. Re1
>>>Qf7) 24. Rfd1 Qb3 $2 (24... Qxb2 $4 25. Rxf7 Kxf7 26. Qc4+
>>>{nebst Matt}) (24... Re8 {hält die Stellung. Genius spielt
>>>diesen Zug nach 8,5 min} 25. Rxf7 Qxf7 26. Rd7 h5 $1
>>>27. Rxf7 hxg4 28. Rxb7 gxf3 {und Weiß hat noch Probleme.})
>>>25. R1d3 Qxb2 {_} (25... Qa2 26. b3 Rxd7 27. Qxd7 Rf8
>>>28. Qe6+ Kh8 29. Rd7 {und Weiß steht etwas besser})
>>>26. Qc4 $3 (26. Rxf7 Qb1+ 27. Kg2 Qxd3 28. Rxb7 {Mit
>>>Vorteil für Schwarz}) 26... Raf8 (26... Qf6 27. Rxb7 Raf8
>>>28. Rdd7 Qxf3 29. Bc5 h6 {und Weiß braucht einen
>>>Gewinnplan}) 27. Rxf7 Rxf7 28. Rd8+ Bf8 29. Bh6 Qa3 {_}
>>>30. Qe6 $1 Qc5 31. h4 Qb4 32. f4 Qb1+ 33. Kh2 Qb4
>>>34. Kg2 $1 (34. f5 $4 Qxh4+) 34... Qa3 35. h5 gxh5 36. f5
>>>Qb4 37. Rxf8+ Qxf8 38. Bxf8 Kxf8 39. f6 Rxf6 (39... Kg8
>>>40. Kg3 c5 41. Kh4 c4 42. Kxh5 c3 43. Qg4+ Kh8 44. Qc8+ Rf8
>>>45. Qxf8#) 1-0
>>>
>>>I gave programs long time to analyze and I do not agree with the analysis for
>>>24...Re8
>>>
>>>It seems that after 24...Re8 the right move for white is not 25.Rxf7 but 25.Rd8
>>>
>>>possible lines are:
>>>
>>>25...Rff8 26.Rxe8 Rxe8 27.Rd7
>>>
>>>and now a possible line is 27...Qb3 28.Qf4 Rf8 29.Qe4 with a draw(it seems that
>>>29.Rxg7+ does not give an advantage for white)
>>>
>>>black may have different alternatives but yace can see only a minimal advantage
>>>for black after long analysis
>>>
>>>27...b7-b5 28.Be3-d4 Bg7-h6 29.Bd4-c3 Qa2-c4 30.Qg4xc4+ b5xc4 31.Rd7-a7 c6-c5
>>>32.Ra7xa6 Bh6-g7 33.Kg1-g2 Bg7xc3 34.b2xc3 Re8-f8 35.Ra6-c6 Rf8-f5 36.Rc6-c7
>>> = (-0.24) Depth: 16 07:09:19 1449631kN
>>>
>>>Another alternative that yace can learn to play is 25...Ref8 26.Bc5 Qxb2 27.Bxf8
>>>Bxf8 but after 28.R1d7 yace has to admit that black's advantage was an illusion.
>>>
>>>After learning it yace prefers 25...Rxd8 26.Rxd8+ Rf8 27.Rxf8+ Bxf8
>>>28.Qc8 Qf7 29.Bh6 and again I believe that white is not worse.
>>>
>>>Uri
>>
>>Note that in the last line 27.Rd7 is also possible and at least old Deep Fritz
>>likes that move and fails high on this move at depth 15.
>>
>>Yace also seems to see problems after 27.Rd7 and the score drops from Qxb2 1.73
>>for black(depth 10) to Qxb2 (0.48 pawns for white) at depth 11.
>>
>>Later yace changes it's mind and converges to 27...b5 at the end of iteration
>>11(only 0.49 pawns for black)
>>
>>The score drops at depth 12 and is only 0.46 pawns for black.
>>
>>Uri
>
>
>ergo 24...Re8 leads to a draw. IIRC nobody said nothing else.
>The question is, does 26... Qf6 leads to a draw too, or is after 24...Qb3 blacks
>position lost.
It seems that 26...Qf6 leads also to a draw.
I thought that it was clear that 26...Qf6 leads to a draw and the only
question was about 24...Re8.
Here is some anlaysis of the final position in this analysis with
p800,32 mbytes hash(if white has something better then the analysis was not
correct):
Kasparov,G - Pentium Genius
[D]5rk1/1R1R1rb1/p1p3pp/2B5/2Q5/5q1P/5P2/6K1 w - - 0 1
Analysis by Crafty 18.15:
30.Bc5xf8 Qf3xf2+
+- (3.43) Depth: 1/10 00:00:00
30.Bc5xf8 Qf3xf2+ 31.Kg1-h1 Qf2-f3+ 32.Kh1-g1
+- (3.43) Depth: 2/10 00:00:00
30.Bc5xf8 Qf3xf2+ 31.Kg1-h1 Qf2-f3+ 32.Kh1-h2 Bg7-e5+ 33.Kh2-g1
+- (3.29) Depth: 3/10 00:00:00
30.Bc5xf8 Qf3xf2+ 31.Kg1-h1 Qf2-f3+ 32.Kh1-h2 Qf3-f2+ 33.Kh2-h1
= (0.00) Depth: 4/13 00:00:00
30.Rb7-c7 Bg7-e5 31.Rc7-b7 Qf3-f4 32.Qc4xf4 Be5xf4 33.Bc5xf8 Rf7xd7 34.Rb7xd7
Kg8xf8
² (0.67) Depth: 4/13 00:00:00
30.h3-h4 Qf3-c3 31.Qc4xc3 Bg7xc3 32.Bc5xf8 Rf7xd7 33.Rb7xd7 Kg8xf8
± (0.85) Depth: 4/13 00:00:00
30.Qc4-a2 Bg7-d4 31.Bc5xd4 Qf3-d1+ 32.Kg1-h2
+- (2.95) Depth: 4/13 00:00:00
30.Qc4-a2 Bg7-b2 31.Rb7-a7 Bb2-d4 32.Bc5xd4
+- (2.95) Depth: 5/16 00:00:00
30.Qc4-a2 Bg7-b2 31.Rb7xb2 Qf3xh3 32.Bc5xf8 Qh3xd7 33.Bf8xh6
+- (2.60) Depth: 6/16 00:00:00 163kN
30.Qc4-a2 Qf3xh3 31.Bc5xf8 Qh3-g4+ 32.Kg1-f1 Qg4-h3+ 33.Kf1-e2 Qh3-g4+ 34.Ke2-d2
Qg4-f4+ 35.Kd2-d1
+- (2.17) Depth: 7/20 00:00:01 446kN
30.Qc4-a2 Qf3xh3 31.Rd7xf7 Qh3-g4+ 32.Kg1-h2 Qg4-h4+ 33.Kh2-g2 Qh4-g4+ 34.Kg2-h2
= (0.00) Depth: 8/21 00:00:02 1006kN
30.h3-h4 a6-a5 31.Qc4-e6 Qf3-f4 32.Rb7-a7 Qf4-e5 33.Qe6xe5 Bg7xe5 34.Bc5xf8
Rf7xd7 35.Ra7xd7 Kg8xf8
² (0.66) Depth: 8/21 00:00:06 2667kN
30.Rb7-a7 Qf3-f5 31.f2-f4 Qf5-b1+ 32.Kg1-h2 Qb1-b2+ 33.Kh2-g3 Qb2-c3+ 34.Qc4xc3
Bg7xc3 35.Bc5xf8 Rf7xd7 36.Ra7xd7 Kg8xf8
± (1.18) Depth: 8/21 00:00:10 4331kN
30.Rb7-a7 Qf3-f5 31.f2-f4 Qf5-b1+ 32.Kg1-f2 Qb1-b2+ 33.Kf2-e3 Qb2-c3+ 34.Qc4xc3
Bg7xc3 35.Bc5xf8 Rf7xd7 36.Ra7xd7 Kg8xf8
± (1.28) Depth: 9/24 00:00:14 6183kN
30.Rb7-a7 g6-g5 31.Qc4-e6 Qf3-f6 32.Qe6xf6 Bg7xf6 33.Bc5xf8 Rf7xd7 34.Ra7xd7
Kg8xf8 35.Rd7-c7 Bf6-d4 36.Rc7xc6
± (1.38) Depth: 10/24 00:00:29 13249kN
30.Rb7-a7 g6-g5 31.Ra7-b7 Qf3-f6 32.Qc4-a2 Qf6-a1+ 33.Qa2xa1 Bg7xa1 34.Bc5xf8
Rf7xd7 35.Rb7xd7
+- (1.42) Depth: 11/28 00:00:53 24655kN
30.Rb7-a7 a6-a5 31.Bc5xf8 Qf3xf2+ 32.Kg1-h1 Qf2-f3+ 33.Kh1-g1 Bg7-d4+ 34.Rd7xd4
Qf3-g3+ 35.Kg1-h1 Qg3xh3+ 36.Kh1-g1 Qh3-g3+ 37.Kg1-h1 Qg3-e1+ 38.Kh1-h2 Qe1-f2+
39.Kh2-h3 Qf2-e3+ 40.Kh3-h4 Qe3-e1+ 41.Kh4-g4 Qe1-g1+ 42.Kg4-h4 Qg1-e1+
= (0.00) Depth: 12/30 00:03:03 83651kN
(Blass, Tel-aviv 17.09.2002)
Kasparov,G - Pentium Genius
5rk1/1R1R1rb1/p1p3pp/2B5/2Q5/5q1P/5P2/6K1 w - - 0 1
Analysis by Deep Fritz:
30.Qc4xf7+--
-+ (-2.81) Depth: 1/7 00:00:00
30.Qc4xf7+--
-+ (-2.81) Depth: 1/7 00:00:00
30.Rd7xf7!
-+ (-2.75) Depth: 1/7 00:00:00
30.Rd7xf7! Rf8xf7 31.Rb7xf7 Qf3xf7 32.Qc4xa6
-+ (-1.41) Depth: 1/7 00:00:00
30.Bc5xf8!
µ (-1.19) Depth: 1/7 00:00:00
30.Bc5xf8! Qf3xf2+ 31.Kg1-h1
+- (1.88) Depth: 1/8 00:00:00
30.Bc5xf8 Qf3xf2+ 31.Kg1-h1
+- (1.88) Depth: 2/11 00:00:00
30.Bc5xf8 Qf3xf2+ 31.Kg1-h1 Qf2-f3+ 32.Kh1-h2 Bg7-e5+ 33.Kh2-g1
+- (1.84) Depth: 3/12 00:00:00 2kN
30.Bc5xf8--
+- (1.44) Depth: 4/12 00:00:00 3kN
30.Bc5xf8-- Qf3xf2+ 31.Kg1-h1 Qf2-f3+ 32.Kh1-h2 Qf3-f2+ 33.Kh2-h1 Qf2-f3+
34.Kh1-h2 Qf3-f2+ 35.Kh2-h1 Qf2-f3+
= (0.00) Depth: 4/15 00:00:00 4kN
30.Qc4-a2!
= (-0.09) Depth: 4/17 00:00:00 13kN
30.Qc4-a2! Qf3xh3 31.Rd7xf7 Qh3-g4+ 32.Kg1-h2 Qg4-h4+ 33.Kh2-g2
+- (1.66) Depth: 4/17 00:00:00 15kN
30.Qc4-a2 Bg7-b2 31.Rb7-a7 Bb2-d4 32.Bc5xd4
+- (1.41) Depth: 5/17 00:00:00 30kN
30.Qc4-a2 Bg7-b2 31.Rb7-a7 Qf3xh3 32.Rd7xf7 Qh3-g4+ 33.Kg1-f1
± (1.38) Depth: 6/19 00:00:00 64kN
30.Qc4-a2 Qf3xh3 31.Rd7xf7 Qh3-g4+ 32.Kg1-f1 Qg4-d1+ 33.Kf1-g2 Qd1-g4+ 34.Kg2-h2
+- (1.66) Depth: 7/23 00:00:00 170kN
30.Qc4-a2--
± (1.34) Depth: 8/22 00:00:00 256kN
30.Qc4-a2-- Qf3xh3 31.Bc5xf8 Qh3-g4+ 32.Kg1-f1 Qg4-h3+ 33.Kf1-e2 Qh3-f3+
34.Ke2-e1 Bg7-c3+ 35.Ke1-f1 Qf3-h1+
± (1.13) Depth: 8/23 00:00:00 390kN
30.Qc4-a2--
± (0.81) Depth: 9/23 00:00:01 751kN
30.Qc4-a2-- Qf3xh3 31.Bc5xf8 Qh3-g4+ 32.Kg1-f1 Qg4-h3+ 33.Kf1-e2 Qh3-f3+
34.Ke2-e1 Bg7-c3+ 35.Ke1-f1
= (0.00) Depth: 9/24 00:00:01 980kN
30.Qc4-a2 Qf3xh3 31.Bc5xf8 Qh3-g4+ 32.Kg1-f1 Qg4-h3+ 33.Kf1-e2 Qh3-f3+ 34.Ke2-e1
Bg7-c3+ 35.Ke1-f1 Qf3-h1+
= (0.00) Depth: 10/28 00:00:04 3113kN
30.Qc4-a2 Qf3xh3 31.Bc5xf8 Qh3-g4+ 32.Kg1-f1 Qg4-h3+ 33.Kf1-e2 Qh3-f3+ 34.Ke2-e1
Bg7-c3+ 35.Ke1-f1 Qf3-h1+
= (0.00) Depth: 11/30 00:00:07 5784kN
30.Qc4-a2 Qf3xh3 31.Bc5xf8 Qh3-g4+ 32.Kg1-f1 Qg4-h3+ 33.Kf1-e2 Qh3-f3+ 34.Ke2-e1
Bg7-c3+ 35.Ke1-f1 Qf3-h1+
= (0.00) Depth: 12/31 00:00:17 13156kN
30.Rb7-a7!
= (-0.12) Depth: 12/33 00:00:38 29892kN
30.Rb7-a7! h6-h5 31.Ra7-b7 Bg7-h6 32.Qc4-e6 Qf3-f6 33.Qe6xf6 Rf7xf6 34.Bc5xf8
Bh6xf8 35.Rb7-a7
= (0.13) Depth: 12/34 00:01:09 53046kN
30.Rb7-a7 h6-h5 31.Ra7-b7 g6-g5 32.Qc4-a2 Qf3xh3 33.Bc5xf8 Qh3-g4+ 34.Kg1-h1
Qg4-h3+ 35.Kh1-g1 Qh3-g4+
= (0.00) Depth: 13/35 00:01:34 71722kN
30.Rb7-a7 h6-h5 31.Ra7-b7 g6-g5 32.Qc4-a2 Qf3xh3 33.Bc5xf8 Qh3-g4+ 34.Kg1-h1
Qg4-h3+ 35.Kh1-g1 Qh3-g4+
= (0.00) Depth: 14/35 00:02:55 131447kN
(Blass, Tel-aviv 17.09.2002)
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.