Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 11:21:23 09/19/02
Go up one level in this thread
On September 19, 2002 at 11:41:35, Uri Blass wrote: >On September 19, 2002 at 11:24:49, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On September 19, 2002 at 08:58:52, Uri Blass wrote: >> >>>On September 19, 2002 at 07:57:36, pavel wrote: >>> >>>>On September 19, 2002 at 07:47:46, Uri Blass wrote: >>>> >>>>>On September 19, 2002 at 07:35:06, pavel wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On September 19, 2002 at 06:01:57, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On September 19, 2002 at 05:59:07, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On September 19, 2002 at 05:19:07, Jouni Uski wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 1: Ruffian 0.76 20.0 / 24 >>>>>>>>> 2: Gandalf 5.1 15.5 / 24 >>>>>>>>> 3: WBNimzo 2000b 15.0 / 24 >>>>>>>>> 4: Yace 0.99.56 14.5 / 24 >>>>>>>>> 5: Pharaon 2.62 13.5 / 25 >>>>>>>>> 6: Zarkov 4.5y 12.5 / 25 >>>>>>>>> 7: LambChop 10.88 12.0 / 24 >>>>>>>>> 8: Pepito 1.55 10.0 / 24 >>>>>>>>> 9: Quark 1.76 10.0 / 24 >>>>>>>>>10: Shredder 3.0 10.0 / 24 >>>>>>>>>11: Comet B.48-2 10.0 / 24 >>>>>>>>>12: Gromit 3.8.2 9.5 / 24 >>>>>>>>>13: Nejmet 3.06 8.5 / 24 >>>>>>>>>14: Patzer 3.61 8.0 / 24 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>And still the only thing I know about program is the author: Per-Ola >>>>>>>>>Valfridsson! >>>>>>>>>Google search gives him 1774 rating - so his about mine level. But his program >>>>>>>>>seems to play around 2800?!?!?!?! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Jouni >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>The rating of the author is totally unimportant. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I have some questions: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>1)How much time did the author work on his program? >>>>>>>>2)What did he read to help him to develop his program? >>>>>>>>What are the free source codes that he looked at and how much of them did he >>>>>>>>understand? >>>>>>>>3)Did the author claimed that he is going to do the program freeware? >>>>>>>>I read this claim but not from the author but only from other people. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I doubt if to believe it and I will also have the same doubts if someone tells >>>>>>>>me that one of Fritz,Tiger or Junior are going to be freeware espacially when >>>>>>>>the teller is not the author of one of these programs. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Uri >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Note that if Ruffian0.76 is going to be freeware only in 2010 then the claim >>>>>>>that it is going to be freeware is misleading. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>My understanding was that the claim was that ruffian is going to be freeware in >>>>>>>the near future and my interpertation is 2002. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Uri >>>>>> >>>>>>Ruffian will come with the next update of Arena with the installation and >>>>>>without the installation, as a winboard engine. >>>>>>Just like programs like AnMon and SoS comes with the Arena Installation package. >>>>>> >>>>>>The programmer himself said he will release it very soon, from what I >>>>>>understand, he wants to port it under other OS too. >>>>> >>>>>Saying that he is going to release it is not saying that it is going to be >>>>>freeware. >>>> >>>>He will (most likely) release the next version for free, thus it will be >>>>freeware. >>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>When will Ruffian come out? >>>>>>The same time next update of Arena will. >>>>>> >>>>>>cheers, >>>>>>pavs >>>>> >>>>>Maybe the next version of Arena is going to be commercial program and in this >>>>>case all the programs that come only with Arena are going to be commercial. >>>>> >>>>>Uri >>>> >>>>AFAIK Arena will never be commercial. >>>>Just like Scid will never be commercial. >>>> >>>>This is my understanding based on the few e-mail exchange I had with him. >>>> >>>>Unless there is a Winboard Edition III, which is completely a differant story. >>>> >>>>I have the impression you don't want Ruffian to be a freeware, if so, why? >>>>;) >>>> >>>>cheers, >>>>pavs >>> >>>I prefer to see it as commercial program. >>>If it becomes freeware then it is possible that part of the programmers are >>>going to stop working on their program. >>> >>>I think that it increases the chances that we will never see a new Gandalf or a >>>new Hiarcs because if they are not better than a free program they cannot earn >>>enough money from it so they may give up programming. >>> >>>I think that doing programs that are too strong freeware is not productive for >>>computer chess. >>> >>>The users of chess programs are not poor people and they can buy it. >>>If the author can earn significant money from ruffian then it is better if he >>>sells it. >>> >>>I guess that he can sell few thousands of copies as a winboard program with >>>price of 50$ even without a special interface. >>> >>>Uri >> >> >>The only thing that concerns me is that anytime a brand new and unheard-of >>engine pops up, it is cause for concern _and_ suspicion. It might be perfectly >>legitimate, who knows. But remember "voyager", "le petite", "bionic impact", >>"gunda" and others? >> >>Jumping way up to near the front of the pack is not easy. Doing it without >>ever having been to a public event is even more unlikely. >> >>It would be interesting to examine the executable if anyone has a copy, to >>avoid the suspicions before they start to grow... > >Yes > >The difference is that these crafty clones were not clearly stronger than crafty >when it seems based on the results that ruffian is clearly stronger than all the >free programs. > >If people who have a copy compare the executable they should also compare it >with the executable of the commercial programs. > >Uri Le Petite had a pretty good time of beating Crafty. We later found out it was due to a better book, mainly. So wins and losses don't really count as much as the actual moves played in the game... or an examination of the executable.
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