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Subject: Re: Ruffian 0.76 is still playing incredible strong!

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 12:45:43 09/19/02

Go up one level in this thread


On September 19, 2002 at 14:21:23, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On September 19, 2002 at 11:41:35, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On September 19, 2002 at 11:24:49, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On September 19, 2002 at 08:58:52, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>
>>>>On September 19, 2002 at 07:57:36, pavel wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On September 19, 2002 at 07:47:46, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On September 19, 2002 at 07:35:06, pavel wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On September 19, 2002 at 06:01:57, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On September 19, 2002 at 05:59:07, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On September 19, 2002 at 05:19:07, Jouni Uski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 1: Ruffian 0.76    20.0 / 24
>>>>>>>>>> 2: Gandalf 5.1     15.5 / 24
>>>>>>>>>> 3: WBNimzo 2000b   15.0 / 24
>>>>>>>>>> 4: Yace 0.99.56    14.5 / 24
>>>>>>>>>> 5: Pharaon 2.62    13.5 / 25
>>>>>>>>>> 6: Zarkov 4.5y     12.5 / 25
>>>>>>>>>> 7: LambChop 10.88  12.0 / 24
>>>>>>>>>> 8: Pepito 1.55     10.0 / 24
>>>>>>>>>> 9: Quark 1.76      10.0 / 24
>>>>>>>>>>10: Shredder 3.0    10.0 / 24
>>>>>>>>>>11: Comet B.48-2    10.0 / 24
>>>>>>>>>>12: Gromit 3.8.2     9.5 / 24
>>>>>>>>>>13: Nejmet 3.06      8.5 / 24
>>>>>>>>>>14: Patzer 3.61      8.0 / 24
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>And still the only thing I know about program is the author: Per-Ola
>>>>>>>>>>Valfridsson!
>>>>>>>>>>Google search gives him 1774 rating - so his about mine level. But his program
>>>>>>>>>>seems to play around 2800?!?!?!?!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Jouni
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>The rating of the author is totally unimportant.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I have some questions:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>1)How much time did the author work on his program?
>>>>>>>>>2)What did he read to help him to develop his program?
>>>>>>>>>What are the free source codes that he looked at and how much of them did he
>>>>>>>>>understand?
>>>>>>>>>3)Did the author claimed that he is going to do the program freeware?
>>>>>>>>>I read this claim but not from the author but only from other people.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I doubt if to believe it and I will also have the same doubts if someone tells
>>>>>>>>>me that one of Fritz,Tiger or Junior are going to be freeware espacially when
>>>>>>>>>the teller is not the author of one of these programs.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Uri
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Note that if Ruffian0.76 is going to be freeware only in 2010 then the claim
>>>>>>>>that it is going to be freeware is misleading.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>My understanding was that the claim was that ruffian is going to be freeware in
>>>>>>>>the near future and my interpertation is 2002.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Uri
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Ruffian will come with the next update of Arena with the installation and
>>>>>>>without the installation, as a winboard engine.
>>>>>>>Just like programs like AnMon and SoS comes with the Arena Installation package.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The programmer himself said he will release it very soon, from what I
>>>>>>>understand, he wants to port it under other OS too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Saying that he is going to release it is not saying that it is going to be
>>>>>>freeware.
>>>>>
>>>>>He will (most likely) release the next version for free, thus it will be
>>>>>freeware.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>When will Ruffian come out?
>>>>>>>The same time next update of Arena will.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>cheers,
>>>>>>>pavs
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Maybe the next version of Arena is going to be commercial program and in this
>>>>>>case all the programs that come only with Arena are going to be commercial.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Uri
>>>>>
>>>>>AFAIK Arena will never be commercial.
>>>>>Just like Scid will never be commercial.
>>>>>
>>>>>This is my understanding based on the few e-mail exchange I had with him.
>>>>>
>>>>>Unless there is a Winboard Edition III, which is completely a differant story.
>>>>>
>>>>>I have the impression you don't want Ruffian to be a freeware, if so, why?
>>>>>;)
>>>>>
>>>>>cheers,
>>>>>pavs
>>>>
>>>>I prefer to see it as commercial program.
>>>>If it becomes freeware then it is possible that part of the programmers are
>>>>going to stop working on their program.
>>>>
>>>>I think that it increases the chances that we will never see a new Gandalf or a
>>>>new Hiarcs because if they are not better than a free program they cannot earn
>>>>enough money from it so they may give up programming.
>>>>
>>>>I think that doing programs that are too strong freeware is not productive for
>>>>computer chess.
>>>>
>>>>The users of chess programs are not poor people and they can buy it.
>>>>If the author can earn significant money from ruffian then it is better if he
>>>>sells it.
>>>>
>>>>I guess that he can sell few thousands of copies  as a winboard program with
>>>>price of 50$ even without a special interface.
>>>>
>>>>Uri
>>>
>>>
>>>The only thing that concerns me is that anytime a brand new and unheard-of
>>>engine pops up, it is cause for concern _and_ suspicion.  It might be perfectly
>>>legitimate, who knows.  But remember "voyager", "le petite", "bionic impact",
>>>"gunda" and others?
>>>
>>>Jumping way up to near the front of the pack is not easy.  Doing it without
>>>ever having been to a public event is even more unlikely.
>>>
>>>It would be interesting to examine the executable if anyone has a copy, to
>>>avoid the suspicions before they start to grow...
>>
>>Yes
>>
>>The difference is that these crafty clones were not clearly stronger than crafty
>>when it seems based on the results that ruffian is clearly stronger than all the
>>free programs.
>>
>>If people who have a copy compare the executable they should also compare it
>>with the executable of the commercial programs.
>>
>>Uri
>
>
>Le Petite had a pretty good time of beating Crafty.  We later found out it
>was due to a better book, mainly.  So wins and losses don't really count as much
>as the actual moves played in the game...  or an examination of the executable.

The good results of ruffian are not against crafty but against other programs.

The last reuslt that I read is 7-5 against Gandalf
It also had 9.5-.5 against list4.61 and based on looking at the games ruffian
did not try to repeat games(list has no opening book so it could get that result
by that way.

The worst result so far that I saw was a loss 5.5-4.5 agains little goliath
schoop tournament

More results in schoop tournament(Phase 1 Ruffian first place,Aristarch second
place)

Ruffian-Resp0.19 3-1
Ruffian-Aristarch 1.5-2.5
Ruffian-Nejmet 4-0
Ruffian-Pharon 2.5-1.5
Ruffian-The crazy bishop 3.5-.5

Phase II Ruffian first place:

Ruffian-Bringer 5.5-.5
Ruffian-Leila 4.5-1.5
Ruffian-Tao 3.5-2.5

Uri



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