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Subject: Re: crafty faster on AMD however

Author: Vincent Diepeveen

Date: 13:17:35 10/02/02

Go up one level in this thread


On October 02, 2002 at 15:53:52, Robert Hyatt wrote:

your statement was: gcc 2.95.2 is way faster than any other gcc
version.

you get back to your claim?

>On October 02, 2002 at 15:05:38, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>
>>On October 02, 2002 at 11:26:51, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>actually i have 20 lines of code which produces clear bugs in it.
>>but i can't cut'n paste them because they are property of a big
>>project. i actually *did* forward them.
>
>Why can you cut/paste 20 lines of code?  If it is part of a "big project"
>it won't be revealing very much.
>
>
>
>>
>>your statement that crafty's fastest gcc is version 2.95.2 is nonsense.
>>every idiot can see that 3.2 is way faster using the profile info.
>
>See the times I posted.  Not made up.  No hand waving...
>
>
>>
>>gives a speed boost of around 20% for me. even if it's 10% for you...
>
>Can't help that.  Every "idiot" can see the times I posted.  The gcc 3.2
>executable is far slower than the intel 6.0 executable.  I'm still playing
>with 3.2 but have not closed the gap yet...
>
>
>
>
>>
>>>On October 01, 2002 at 08:57:46, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>
>>>>On September 30, 2002 at 10:19:53, Tom Likens wrote:
>>>>
>>>>I'm really not interested in the intel c++ compiler to
>>>>waste time to clearly find bugs without getting paid for it.
>>>>
>>>\
>>>Based on the bugs you have "found" and reported, they would/n't consider
>>>paying you anyway.  Because what you are reporting are imaginary bugs.
>>>Too much testing here has confirmed that for _significant_ programs, the
>>>compiler produces perfect results, and the results are  produced faster than
>>>any version of gcc, thru the current 3.2 gcc as released in redhat 8.0...  In
>>>fact,
>>>intel's compiler is producing numbers at least 10% faster than gcc 3.2.  Here
>>>is one sample:
>>>
>>>Intel's compiler:  time=18.99
>>>gcc 3.2 time:       time=23.16
>>>
>>>Both run on a single 700mhz xeon, one processor, with the best optimization
>>>flags
>>>I have found so far...  that is significant.
>>>
>>>>However if you want my makefile which i use for intel c++
>>>>you can email me.
>>>>
>>>>I need to add that i am multiprocessor. The bug i talked
>>>>about for the intelc++ with regards to diep, it was appearing
>>>>in the game diep - xinix, round 1 icsvn2. diep gave away a pawn
>>>>there without clear reasons.
>>>>
>>>>I could never reproduce the move except with intel c++ 6.0
>>>>using optimizations. Of course i just went to msvc compiled
>>>>diep versions then and didn't give the intel c++ any thought
>>>>anymore.
>>>
>>>That is some kind of scientific reasoning.  A bug shows up rarely, and
>>>when it shows up with a specific compiler, it _must_ be the compiler.
>>>
>>>:)
>>>
>>>look forward to playing your program in the future with that kind of
>>>debugging...
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>if something loses half a point for me (Rae1 would have won
>>>>the game simply, which is the move any other executable played
>>>>whatever i tried) then i am capable of killing every intel guy
>>>>who worked on the compiler.
>>>
>>>Or perhaps you should just spend more time debugging your code?
>>>It works well for too many programs here, including some _huge_ programs
>>>that run for weeks at a time, for the compiler to have that kind of bugs.  More
>>>likely it is the _program_ that has the bugs, rather than the compiler.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>half a point there and half a point in SOS game would've meant
>>>>i would have been first, what happened now is that i played someone
>>>>in round 2 who scored zero points. Bad for my sum of opponents...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Vincent,
>>>>>I've got some time over the next couple of days (we just taped out a chip, and
>>>>>I'm
>>>>>taking some time off), so I think I'll run an experiment or two using the code
>>>>>you
>>>>>supplied as a starting point.  I have access to a P-III, a P4 and an Athlon
>>>>>processor
>>>>>so I can run some realistic tests on the Intel compiler (and the new gcc
>>>>>compiler
>>>>>as well).
>>>>>
>>>>>It might be helpful if you gave me your compiler settings.  As a data point,
>>>>>for Intel profiling I've been using:
>>>>>
>>>>>-O3 -axK -xK -prof_genx
>>>>>
>>>>>and for profile-guided executables:
>>>>>
>>>>>-O3 -axK -xK -wp_ipo -ipo_obj -prof_use
>>>>>
>>>>>These settings *should* work on everything from a P-III onward.
>>>>>I interspersed a few other comments below.
>>>>>
>>>>>On September 30, 2002 at 04:50:31, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>There is zillions of bugs in the intel c++ compiler where it
>>>>>>generates code that is buggy both at my P3 as well as the K7s.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Of course the majority of bugs in the intel 6.0 compiler i didn't
>>>>>>checkout, i just file compared the logs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>All compilers produced the same log except the intel c++ 6.0 compiler.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>One bug i HAD to investigate and it was in a program doing floating point
>>>>>>for a database conversion tool where i casted things to int.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>something like
>>>>>>
>>>>>>int coefficient(int bla,int blabla)
>>>>>>    double a,b,c,d,e,f,g;
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    .. (all kind of stuff)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    return( (int)((a*b)+c));
>>>>>>}
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It took me very long to find this bug. I was very sick when
>>>>>>i learned that sometimes it returned a random value.
>>>>>
>>>>>Yeah, this sounds like one of those lovely, 2:00 AM in the morning debug
>>>>>sessions-
>>>>>been there, done that.  One quick question here, did you ever get an assembly
>>>>>language dump of the code to see what was being produced?  If you isolate the
>>>>>module and compile it using:
>>>>>
>>>>>-S <your compiler settings> etc.
>>>>>
>>>>>it will give you Intel assembly.  Another idea would be to enable/disable the
>>>>>various
>>>>>optimization switches to try and isolate the switch causing the problem.
>>>>>
>>>>>>Obviously it didn't happen when i compiled without optimizations.
>>>>>>Just debug code with intel c++ it worked fine. Yet i'm not having
>>>>>>a good feeling running always with debug code turned on :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Do you?
>>>>>
>>>>>No, having the debug code always turned on is a good way to sink to the bottom
>>>>>of the ratings list, although you'll probably catch a lot of bugs :)
>>>>>
>>>>>>Further the intel c++ 6.0 compiler is hell slower for DIEP
>>>>>>at AMD than even a default msvc 6.0 sp4 procpack compile.
>>>>>>Not to mention the gcc 3.1 which has branch
>>>>>>reorder optimizations using profile info
>>>>>>just like the intel c++ thing has.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>to my amazement gcc 3.1 with branch reordering also was a bit faster
>>>>>>at my P3 than the intel c++ 6.0 thing.
>>>>>
>>>>>Gcc 3.2 is a nice improvement over the previous versions.  The additional C++
>>>>>compIiance alone, makes it worth the cost of admission.  I saw a speed increase
>>>>>moving to 3.2, but the biggest increase was moving to the Intel compiler (for
>>>>>me).
>>>>>Of course, if it produces buggy code it's a moot point, since I can make
>>>>>anything
>>>>>arbitrarily fast if it doesn't have to be correct.
>>>>>
>>>>>>I do not know what the 6.0 compiler is doing, but it seems they only
>>>>>>did effort to get it slower at the K7, thereby also sacraficing speed
>>>>>>at their own P3 hardware.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Another weird thing for me is the realisation that the optimizing with
>>>>>>profile information in a open source compiler is doing way better than
>>>>>>the intel c++ is. Isn't it allowed in the specint or so? :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>If i see the specbench.org testresults, i do not see them use the
>>>>>>profile info to reorder branches.
>>>>>
>>>>>I'm guessing they are either too lazy or they don't understand the full
>>>>>capabilities of the compiler (maybe a little of both).
>>>>>
>>>>>>msvc doesn't have all this cool features regrettably, otherwise it would
>>>>>>be by far fastest compiler as a default compile from it is way faster
>>>>>>than a default gcc compile is for k7. Yet the 20% speed the k7 executable
>>>>>>of DIEP wins by that extra optimization pass using profile info, that's the
>>>>>>big win.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Best regards,
>>>>>>Vincent
>>>>>
>>>>>I'm not a huge fan of Microsoft, but I give credit where credit is due.  For a
>>>>>*long* time (years) their compiler produced the fastest code by a large
>>>>>margin.  That doesn't seem to be the case any more for just the reason you
>>>>>mention.  Without the extra info the profile pass provides (say that five times
>>>>>fast ;)
>>>>>they are starting to lag behind.
>>>>>
>>>>>regards,
>>>>>--tom



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