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Subject: Re: Draw due to lack of blockade detection...

Author: Joachim Rang

Date: 12:17:45 10/04/02

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On October 04, 2002 at 14:39:05, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:

>On October 04, 2002 at 14:34:46, Joachim Rang wrote:
>
>>On October 04, 2002 at 14:21:16, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>
>>>On October 04, 2002 at 11:48:06, Omid David wrote:
>>>
>>>How many times must i say the same thing?
>>>
>>>Suppose i have 200 patterns to adjust my score.
>>>
>>>Now 1 pattern can undo all those 200 patterns.
>>>
>>>I'm then either an idiot then to have those 200 patterns,
>>>or to use that one pattern, if it is in 50% of the cases wrong.
>>>Even if it is in 80% of the cases right :)
>>
>>I can't understand what you are trying to say.
>>Suppose you have 200 patterns and add another drawing-detection pattern a la
>>Omid. This 201st pattern overrides the 200 other patterns if certain
>>circumstances are met (which means in certain positions). The pattern does not
>>change any evaluation if certain circumstances aren't met. Suppose you can
>>describe the circumstances correctly, the drawing pattern overrides the 200
>>other patterns only in the correct positions. The other 200 patterns you need
>>for the other positions.
>>
>>regards
>>
>>Joachim
>
>You still think chess is like mathetmatics, so
> 1 = 1
>
>and
>
> 2 = 2
>
>then whey aren't there engines playing perfect chess?

yes you may be right, I'm quite a newbie in computer chess and a weak player
too. But why are you angry at me, instead of telling me, where I don't see the
point (which should be a bit more concrete than "you are to stupid to understand
it").

If I understand you correctly you doubt that there is a way to detect such draws
100% correctly. Okay I'm not an expert in this area you may be right.

>
>> >
>>>>On October 04, 2002 at 11:34:39, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On October 04, 2002 at 11:26:51, Omid David wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>slowing down the search is not the problem. the problem i
>>>>>explained in email to sargon
>>>>
>>>>So I assume the problem is that it's not 100% reliable, and may return
>>>>inaccurate estimates. Right?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>On October 04, 2002 at 11:22:05, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On October 04, 2002 at 10:34:43, Omid David wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>had fritz implemented such a scheme it would play 300 points weaker
>>>>>>>anyway.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It depends on how you implement it without slowing down the search
>>>>>>significantly, and that's what I'm currently working on...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It's obvious that applying the whole heuristic on each and every node is too
>>>>>>expensive. But a wise application of it, could detect many draws without any
>>>>>>significant impact on the total speed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Omid.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Just today we had a discussion regarding the importance of blockade draw
>>>>>>>>detections http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?255950
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Had Fritz implemented such a scheme, it wouldn't have stepped into the drawing
>>>>>>>>variation.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>My engine instantly announced draw based on its blocked-draw detection
>>>>>>>>heuristic. While Fritz never realized the draw...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Omid.



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