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Subject: Re: Draw due to lack of blockade detection...

Author: Vincent Diepeveen

Date: 13:40:04 10/04/02

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On October 04, 2002 at 15:39:36, Omid David wrote:

So you are declaring that months of work of me some years ago is
completely stupidly done because you can do it 'perfect' like the
EGTBs can do it?

>On October 04, 2002 at 15:17:45, Joachim Rang wrote:
>
>>On October 04, 2002 at 14:39:05, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>
>>>On October 04, 2002 at 14:34:46, Joachim Rang wrote:
>>>
>>>>On October 04, 2002 at 14:21:16, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On October 04, 2002 at 11:48:06, Omid David wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>How many times must i say the same thing?
>>>>>
>>>>>Suppose i have 200 patterns to adjust my score.
>>>>>
>>>>>Now 1 pattern can undo all those 200 patterns.
>>>>>
>>>>>I'm then either an idiot then to have those 200 patterns,
>>>>>or to use that one pattern, if it is in 50% of the cases wrong.
>>>>>Even if it is in 80% of the cases right :)
>>>>
>>>>I can't understand what you are trying to say.
>>>>Suppose you have 200 patterns and add another drawing-detection pattern a la
>>>>Omid. This 201st pattern overrides the 200 other patterns if certain
>>>>circumstances are met (which means in certain positions). The pattern does not
>>>>change any evaluation if certain circumstances aren't met. Suppose you can
>>>>describe the circumstances correctly, the drawing pattern overrides the 200
>>>>other patterns only in the correct positions. The other 200 patterns you need
>>>>for the other positions.
>>>>
>>>>regards
>>>>
>>>>Joachim
>>>
>>>You still think chess is like mathetmatics, so
>>> 1 = 1
>>>
>>>and
>>>
>>> 2 = 2
>>>
>>>then whey aren't there engines playing perfect chess?
>>
>>yes you may be right, I'm quite a newbie in computer chess and a weak player
>>too. But why are you angry at me, instead of telling me, where I don't see the
>>point (which should be a bit more concrete than "you are to stupid to understand
>>it").
>
>The fact that you are a newbie doesn't have anything to do with this case. Your
>reasoning was completely correct.
>
>I'm telling you, there *is* a way to detect blockades with 100% accuracy, i.e.
>there might be blockades in which it doesn't detect and that's fine (you'll do
>regular search), but it *never* announces draw wrongfully.
>
>It *can* be done, for I have done it, and I believe most of the programmers here
>(including Vincent, if he thinks a little before announcing it "impossible") can
>do it.
>
>
>>
>>If I understand you correctly you doubt that there is a way to detect such draws
>>100% correctly. Okay I'm not an expert in this area you may be right.
>>
>>>
>>>> >
>>>>>>On October 04, 2002 at 11:34:39, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On October 04, 2002 at 11:26:51, Omid David wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>slowing down the search is not the problem. the problem i
>>>>>>>explained in email to sargon
>>>>>>
>>>>>>So I assume the problem is that it's not 100% reliable, and may return
>>>>>>inaccurate estimates. Right?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On October 04, 2002 at 11:22:05, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On October 04, 2002 at 10:34:43, Omid David wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>had fritz implemented such a scheme it would play 300 points weaker
>>>>>>>>>anyway.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>It depends on how you implement it without slowing down the search
>>>>>>>>significantly, and that's what I'm currently working on...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>It's obvious that applying the whole heuristic on each and every node is too
>>>>>>>>expensive. But a wise application of it, could detect many draws without any
>>>>>>>>significant impact on the total speed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Omid.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Just today we had a discussion regarding the importance of blockade draw
>>>>>>>>>>detections http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?255950
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Had Fritz implemented such a scheme, it wouldn't have stepped into the drawing
>>>>>>>>>>variation.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>My engine instantly announced draw based on its blocked-draw detection
>>>>>>>>>>heuristic. While Fritz never realized the draw...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Omid.



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