Author: Omid David
Date: 14:15:38 10/04/02
Go up one level in this thread
On October 04, 2002 at 16:52:11, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >On October 04, 2002 at 14:57:12, Omid David wrote: > >Posted by Omid David (Profile) on October 04, 2002 at 10:34:43: > > >Just today we had a discussion regarding the importance of blockade draw >detections http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?255950 > >Had Fritz implemented such a scheme, it wouldn't have stepped into the drawing >variation. > >My engine instantly announced draw based on its blocked-draw detection >heuristic. While Fritz never realized the draw... > >Omid. >--------------------------------- > >Did you see the position fritz-kramnik? > >If you did, do you recognize the position here? I see now. You thought of a pure static method of detecting blockades, and when failed to do so, you deemed it "impossible". Using a (not so complicated) dynamic detection, you can easily figure out that in Kramnik's position f5 won't break the blockade, whereas in your position, f5 does break it. > > > >>On October 04, 2002 at 14:27:32, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >> >>>On October 04, 2002 at 11:42:09, Omid David wrote: >>> >>>>On October 04, 2002 at 11:38:01, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>> >>>>>On October 04, 2002 at 11:36:16, Omid David wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On October 04, 2002 at 11:33:00, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On October 04, 2002 at 11:25:12, Daniel Clausen wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On October 04, 2002 at 11:22:05, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On October 04, 2002 at 10:34:43, Omid David wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>had fritz implemented such a scheme it would play 300 points weaker >>>>>>>>>anyway. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>"Obviously" it's "impossible" to implement such a scheme, because you've tried >>>>>>>>that already for 5 minutes and it didn't work? SCNR :) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Sargon >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I played with it with DIEP a few years ago and it performed horrible. >>>>>> >>>>>>If you apply such method to each and every node in the search tree, it's natural >>>>>>that the whole search is slowed down in a horrible manner. >>>>> >>>>>no you really are an idiotic programmer if you slow down that >>>>>much by just a few heuristics. >>>> >>>>"just a few heuristic" isn't the case here. It's a complicated (pretty >>>>time-consuming) algorithm, and this, to make sure its results are 100% correct. >>>> >>>>>I already do a lot of scans on the >>>>>board of diep. a full eval is like 100k clocks. so a scan over >>>>>the board is not so expensive. i already scan the pawn structure >>>>>extensively in fact. it's just a few functions i need to turn on >>>>>to find otu things. >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>when you have code that 'overrules' other code then you take away hundreds >>>>>>>of patterns which normally compensate knowledge. it means that if that >>>>>>>single pattern is incorrect, that you lose directly a game. >>>>>> >>>>>>Of course. And that's why your heuristic should be 100% correct and reliable. >>>>> >>>>>the problem of the whole chess game is that you have never 100% correct >>>>>and reliable evaluation except if your opponent is mated. >>>> >>>>Wrong. I've conducted hundreds of tests, and in no single case has my heuristic >>>>returned an inaccurate result. There exist blockades that it fails to detect, >>>>but it never declares a false draw. >>> >>>That's an impossible claim only a beginner can make. >> >>If you can't do it, it doesn't mean it's impossible. I say it is possible for I >>have already done it. >> >> >>> >>>let's take that 'easy to recognize blocked position from against >>>kramnik as you mention >>> >>>white: Kf1,b3,a4,c4,e5,f4,g5 >>>black: Ka7,a5,b6,c7,e6,g6 >> >>My engine doesn't detect any draw here. >> >> >>> >>>black did big effort to exchange to this position. ideally blocked... >>> >>>f5 (pawn sacrafice) 1-0 >>> >>>Vincent >>> >>>>Omid. >>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Omid.
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