Author: Uri Blass
Date: 13:51:48 10/06/02
Go up one level in this thread
On October 06, 2002 at 16:16:46, Roy Eassa wrote:
>On October 06, 2002 at 16:05:40, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On October 06, 2002 at 15:45:35, Roy Eassa wrote:
>>
>>>On October 06, 2002 at 15:38:17, Roy Eassa wrote:
>>>
>>>>On October 06, 2002 at 15:31:44, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On October 06, 2002 at 14:02:02, Ed Schröder wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On October 06, 2002 at 13:18:22, martin fierz wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On October 06, 2002 at 12:31:43, Ed Schröder wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On October 06, 2002 at 12:22:18, Terry McCracken wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On October 06, 2002 at 12:10:43, Ed Schröder wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>[Event "A match in KasparovChess Playing Zone"]
>>>>>>>>>>[Site "www.KasparovChess.com"]
>>>>>>>>>>[Time "Sun Oct 06 18:13:37 GMT+02:00 2002"]
>>>>>>>>>>[White "Kramnik"]
>>>>>>>>>>[Black "Deep_Fritz"]
>>>>>>>>>>[Result "*"]
>>>>>>>>>>[WhiteELO "----"]
>>>>>>>>>>[BlackELO "----"]
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>1. d4 d5 2. c4 dxc4 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. e3 e6 5. Bxc4 c5
>>>>>>>>>>6. O-O a6 7. dxc5 Qxd1 8. Rxd1 Bxc5 9. Kf1 b5 10. Be2 Bb7
>>>>>>>>>>11. Nbd2 Nbd7 12. Nb3 Bf8 13. a4 b4 14. Nfd2 Bd5 15. f3 Bd6
>>>>>>>>>>16. g3 e5 17. e4 Be6 18. Nc4 Bc7 19. Be3 a5 20. Nc5 Nxc5
>>>>>>>>>>21. Bxc5 Nd7 22. Nd6+ Kf8 23. Bf2 Bxd6 24. Rxd6 Ke7 25. Rad1 Rhc8
>>>>>>>>>>26. Bb5 Nc5 27. Bc6 Bc4+ 28. Ke1 Nd3+ 29. R1xd3 Bxd3 30. Bc5 Bc4
>>>>>>>>>>31. Rd4+ Kf6 32. Rxc4 Rxc6 33. Be7+ Kxe7 34. Rxc6 Kd7 35. Rc5 f6
>>>>>>>>>>36. Kd2 Kd6 37. Rd5+ Kc6 38. Kd3 g6 39. Kc4 g5 40. h3 h6
>>>>>>>>>>41. h4 gxh4 42. gxh4 Ra7 {*}
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Rebel +1.50 for white.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Ed
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Yes, it should be over for Black, 43.h5! has sealed any leaks...Zugzwang is
>>>>>>>>>coming.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Is it safe to say white was lost after the exchange of pieces entering the rook
>>>>>>>>end-game? I have been there, thinking Rebel being safe entering a rook end-game
>>>>>>>>and then to find out 10-15 moves later you have entered a lost position! You can
>>>>>>>>calculate as deep as you want and nothing will help! Those awful super-GM's!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Ed
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>svidler was commenting on ICC and said 34...Kd7 was a mistake and instead ...Rd8
>>>>>>>should be played. the passive defense was bound to lose according to him
>>>>>>
>>>>>>And no program will play 34..Rd8 because it sacs the a-pawn.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I am not sure.
>>>>>
>>>>>I suspect that if you let it to search for many hours it may see that every move
>>>>>is losing a pawn and may prefer 34...Rd8
>>>>>
>>>>>I try to go backward with yace(only material) to find when black lost a pawn and
>>>>>I got into move 38 when yace(only material) suggest 38...h6 with 0.00 evaluation
>>>>>but yace(no material) used only few minutes so maybe at depth>18 it can find
>>>>>positive score for white.
>>>>>
>>>>>I do not know if 38...h6 was better but there are positional reasons to prefer
>>>>>38...h6
>>>>>
>>>>>After 38...h6 only g7 is not protected(from h6,g7,f6,e5) when after 38...g6 both
>>>>>h7 and f6 are not protected so at least for me 38...h6 seems to be better.
>>>>>
>>>>>Uri
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>38...h6 39.f4 exf4 40.gxf4 Ra7 41.h4
>>>>
>>>>looks pretty darn good for White. Even Fritz 7 thinks White is ahead by more
>>>>than a pawn.
>>>
>>>
>>>[d] r7/6pp/2k2p2/p2Rp3/Pp2P3/3K1PP1/1P5P/8 b - - 0 37
>>>
>>>A bit more:
>>>
>>>38...h6 39.f4 exf4 40.gxf4 Ra7 41.h4 Kb6
>>
>>
>>You are right Yace(no material find that move and here is the analysis)
>>
>>It means that 38...h6 clearly does kramnik's life more hard.
>>White may win but things are not simple.
>>
>
>
>On that we agree! I thought (and still think) that pushing the g-pawn was weak
>and only hastened Fritz's defeat.
Interesting that normal yace with no learning needs more than 40 minutes to
avoid g6(of course in order to avoid g6 it needs first to find it)
I am not sure about the hardware that was used but I know that it is AMD
I know that the previous processor was pIII800 Mhz and I know that it is about
20% faster than the the PIII800 so I guess that it something like AMD1Gh
Here is the analysis of Yace on that hardware:
Kramnik(GM) - Deep_Fritz_1-0
r7/6pp/2k2p2/p2Rp3/Pp2P3/3K1PP1/1P5P/8 b - - 0 1
Analysis by Yace 0.99.56:
38...b4-b3
= (0.18) Depth: 1 00:00:00
38...g7-g5
= (0.15) Depth: 1 00:00:00
38...g7-g5 39.h2-h4
= (0.22) Depth: 2 00:00:00
38...g7-g5 39.h2-h4 h7-h6
= (0.19) Depth: 3 00:00:00
38...g7-g5 39.h2-h4 h7-h6 40.b2-b3
= (0.22) Depth: 4 00:00:00
38...g7-g5 39.h2-h4 h7-h6 40.h4-h5 Kc6-b6
= (0.19) Depth: 5 00:00:00 3kN
38...g7-g5 39.g3-g4 Kc6-c7 40.Kd3-c4 h7-h6 41.h2-h3
= (0.21) Depth: 6 00:00:00 15kN
38...g7-g5 39.h2-h4 h7-h6 40.h4-h5 Kc6-b7 41.b2-b3 Kb7-b6
= (0.22) Depth: 7 00:00:01 34kN
38...g7-g5 39.h2-h4 h7-h6 40.h4-h5 Kc6-c7 41.Kd3-e3 b4-b3 42.f3-f4
= (0.24) Depth: 8 00:00:01 98kN
38...Ra8-a7 39.Kd3-c4 g7-g5 40.h2-h4 g5xh4 41.f3-f4
= (0.23) Depth: 8 00:00:01 151kN
38...Ra8-a7 39.Kd3-c4 g7-g5 40.g3-g4 h7-h6 41.b2-b3 Ra7-a8 42.h2-h3
= (0.22) Depth: 8 00:00:01 151kN
38...Ra8-a7 39.Kd3-c4 g7-g5 40.h2-h4 g5xh4 41.g3xh4 h7-h5 42.b2-b3 Ra7-a8
43.Kc4-d3
= (0.22) Depth: 9 00:00:01 317kN
38...Kc6-b6 39.Rd5-d7 Ra8-a7 40.Rd7xa7 Kb6xa7 41.Kd3-c4 Ka7-b6 42.Kc4-d5 h7-h5
43.h2-h4 b4-b3
= (0.21) Depth: 9 00:00:02 607kN
38...Kc6-b6 39.Rd5-d7 Ra8-a7 40.Rd7xa7 Kb6xa7 41.Kd3-c4 Ka7-b6 42.Kc4-d5 h7-h5
43.h2-h4 b4-b3 44.g3-g4 h5xg4 45.f3xg4
= (0.25) Depth: 10 00:00:02 840kN
38...Ra8-a7 39.Kd3-c4 g7-g5 40.h2-h4 g5xh4 41.g3xh4 h7-h5 42.b2-b3
= (0.24) Depth: 10 00:00:03 1090kN
38...Ra8-a7 39.Kd3-c4 g7-g5 40.g3-g4 h7-h6 41.h2-h3 Ra7-a6 42.b2-b3 Ra6-a8
43.Kc4-d3
= (0.22) Depth: 10 00:00:03 1090kN
38...Ra8-a7 39.Kd3-c4 g7-g5 40.h2-h4 h7-h6 41.h4-h5 Ra7-a8 42.g3-g4 Kc6-b7
43.Rd5-d7+ Kb7-c6 44.Rd7-d1
= (0.24) Depth: 11 00:00:04 1878kN
38...Ra8-a7 39.h2-h4 Kc6-b6 40.f3-f4 Ra7-e7 41.f4xe5 f6xe5 42.h4-h5 Re7-e6
43.Rd5-d7 Re6-h6 44.g3-g4 g7-g5
² (0.27) Depth: 12 00:00:16 6968kN
38...Ra8-a7 39.Kd3-c4 Kc6-b6 40.Rd5-d6+ Kb6-c7 41.Kc4-d5 h7-h5 42.f3-f4 e5xf4
43.g3xf4 Kc7-c8 44.e4-e5 f6xe5 45.Rd6-c6+ Ra7-c7 46.Rc6xc7+ Kc8xc7 47.f4xe5
² (0.33) Depth: 13 00:00:55 24926kN
38...Ra8-a7 39.Kd3-c4 h7-h6 40.h2-h4 Kc6-b6 41.Rd5-d6+ Kb6-c7 42.Kc4-c5 h6-h5
43.f3-f4 Ra7-b7 44.f4xe5 Rb7-a7 45.Rd6-c6+ Kc7-b8
² (0.36) Depth: 14 00:01:52 50451kN
38...h7-h6 39.f3-f4 e5xf4 40.g3xf4 Ra8-a7 41.h2-h4 Kc6-b6 42.e4-e5 f6xe5
43.Rd5-d6+ Kb6-c5 44.f4xe5 b4-b3 45.Kd3-e3
² (0.35) Depth: 14 00:02:09 58055kN
38...h7-h6 39.h2-h4 g7-g6 40.f3-f4 e5xf4 41.g3xf4 Ra8-a6 42.Rd5-d8 Kc6-c5
43.Rd8-h8 h6-h5 44.Rh8-h6 f6-f5 45.e4xf5 Ra6-d6+ 46.Kd3-e3
² (0.35) Depth: 14 00:02:21 63138kN
38...h7-h6 39.h2-h4 g7-g6 40.f3-f4 e5xf4 41.g3xf4 Kc6-c7 42.h4-h5 g6-g5 43.e4-e5
f6xe5 44.f4xg5 h6xg5 45.Rd5xe5 g5-g4 46.h5-h6
² (0.36) Depth: 15 00:03:40 101602kN
38...Ra8-a7 39.Kd3-c4 h7-h6 40.h2-h4 h6-h5 41.g3-g4 h5xg4 42.f3xg4 Kc6-b6
43.Rd5-d6+ Kb6-c7 44.Kc4-d5 Kc7-b8 45.g4-g5
² (0.35) Depth: 15 00:03:45 103277kN
38...Ra8-a7 39.Kd3-c4 h7-h6 40.h2-h4 h6-h5 41.f3-f4 e5xf4 42.g3xf4 g7-g6
43.e4-e5 f6xe5 44.f4xe5 Kc6-b7 45.Rd5-d6 Ra7-a8
² (0.35) Depth: 15 00:04:23 119989kN
38...Ra8-a7 39.Kd3-c4 h7-h6 40.h2-h4 h6-h5 41.g3-g4 h5xg4 42.f3xg4 Ra7-a8
43.g4-g5 Ra8-h8 44.g5xf6
² (0.38) Depth: 16 00:09:41 272301kN
38...Ra8-a6 39.f3-f4 e5xf4 40.g3xf4 Ra6-a7 41.Kd3-c4 Ra7-e7 42.e4-e5 f6xe5
43.f4xe5 Kc6-b6 44.h2-h4
² (0.37) Depth: 16 00:12:56 362742kN
38...Ra8-a6 39.f3-f4 e5xf4 40.g3xf4 Ra6-a7 41.Kd3-d4 g7-g6 42.h2-h4 Ra7-d7
² (0.36) Depth: 16 00:13:35 379025kN
38...Ra8-a6 39.f3-f4 e5xf4 40.g3xf4 Ra6-a7 41.Kd3-d4 g7-g6 42.h2-h4 Ra7-d7
43.h4-h5
² (0.36) Depth: 16 00:14:45 412941kN
38...Ra8-a6 39.f3-f4 e5xf4 40.g3xf4 Ra6-a7 41.Kd3-d4 g7-g6 42.h2-h4 Kc6-c7
43.e4-e5 Ra7-a6 44.Kd4-c5 h7-h5
² (0.43) Depth: 17 00:16:23 454361kN
38...Ra8-a7 39.h2-h4
² (0.42) Depth: 17 00:16:59 467840kN
38...Ra8-a7 39.Kd3-c4 h7-h6 40.b2-b3 Ra7-a6 41.f3-f4 e5xf4 42.g3xf4 g7-g6
43.h2-h4 Kc6-b7
² (0.42) Depth: 17 00:28:08 759388kN
38...g7-g6 39.h2-h4 h7-h6 40.f3-f4 e5xf4 41.g3xf4 Kc6-c7 42.h4-h5 g6-g5
43.Rd5-f5 Ra8-a6 44.e4-e5 f6xe5
² (0.41) Depth: 17 00:36:07 963531kN
38...g7-g6 39.h2-h4 h7-h6 40.f3-f4 e5xf4 41.g3xf4 Kc6-c7 42.h4-h5 g6-g5 43.e4-e5
Ra8-d8
² (0.41) Depth: 17 00:36:39 978378kN
38...g7-g6 39.h2-h4 h7-h6 40.f3-f4 e5xf4 41.g3xf4 Kc6-c7 42.h4-h5 g6-g5
43.Rd5-f5 Ra8-a6 44.e4-e5
² (0.44) Depth: 18 00:40:47 1094689kN
38...Ra8-a7 39.Kd3-c4
² (0.43) Depth: 18 00:41:02 1101066kN
(Blass, Tel-aviv 06.10.2002)
Uri
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