Author: Roy Eassa
Date: 14:19:46 10/06/02
Go up one level in this thread
On October 06, 2002 at 17:17:29, Rolf Tueschen wrote: >On October 06, 2002 at 17:02:15, Roy Eassa wrote: > >>On October 06, 2002 at 16:53:46, Rolf Tueschen wrote: >> >>>On October 06, 2002 at 16:26:17, Ingo Althofer wrote: >>> >>>>In game 2 against program Fritz GM Kramnik has impressively shown how humans can >>>>adopt to computer opponents and how helpful such flexibility is. I am firmly >>>>convinced that Kramnik had this opening on the board in his preparation, and >>>>that 9.Kf1 was fully intended to throw Fritz out of its book. And very likely >>>>Kramnik had already seen Fritz' dubious moves 12...Bf8 and 13...b4 on the >>>>monitor in his camp before the match. (Remember: Kramnik had the current Fritz >>>>version already a long time for sparring purposes.) >>> >>>Let me just state my opposing opinion. I have no quotes from Kramnik or his >>>helpers, but I'm sure that Kramnik does not need such preparations. He didn't >>>know the specific play for this line, but he learned how Fritz reacted in >>>certain positions after the exchange of Q. I am 100% sure that he did not copy a >>>game from his training. >>> >> >> >>How can you be 100% sure? Even I am only 99.9% sure! :-) > >At first I want to apologize for 1 empty post and a double one. But I had a >crash after 11 hours without re-booting. > >Of course you are right. I took - as usual here - 67% for 100%. :) > > >> >> >>> >>> >>>>By the way: Bf8 was not an isolated Fritz blunder but was also for instance on a >>>>narrow rank 2 in the proposals of Hiarcs... >>>> >>>>Some spectators may now have the feeling that Kramnik's dry style makes the >>>>match less interesting. >>> >>> >>>I don't know what you understand under "dry style" but for me his style is not >>>dry at all. >>> >> >> >>It's dry in the (good) sense that he does not take unnecessary risks (like >>Christiansen did). > >Pity. I had a different impression. For me this game is a masterpiece. Not based >on omissions but on a clear and beautiful demonstration of chess. For me Kramnik >shows exactly what he had said in the interviews about what chess is. I had the >impression during the game that Kramnik spoke "Now, do you understand what I'm >creating here? I try to play beyond the realms of the machine. Afterwards people >will say that I had prepared all the moves, but I didn't, I play this way >because I've understood the play of FRITZ. So I'm doing nothing different here >to human chess. Only, against my human coillegues with Elo like Fritz I could >never dare to play like that." > > > >> >> >>> >>> >>>>But >>>> >>>>(i) The more dry Kramnik is acting now the more fireworks we will see from >>>>Kasparov in December. In his hot temper Kasparov will try to demonstrate how >>>>superior his chess is to that of Kramnik. So, have some patience. >>> >>> >>>Don't you worry. Kramnik showed the highest possible chess against computers. He >>>played normal chess, no anti-computer chess. And he relied on his superior >>>understanding of chess. BTW something you or me for instance could never produce >>>with or without computer help! Because here it is not just the idea or some >>>technique, the whole game is a masterpiece of chess art with computer as >>>opponent! >>> >> >> >>I think Kramnik's "normal" chess is already pretty darn good anti-computer >>chess. It's when the GMs take unnecessary risks (or blunder) that they lost to >>computers. >> > >What can I say different? > > >Rolf Tueschen > >> >>> >>> >>>> >>>>(ii) From my very personal view the games from Bahrain show the superiority of >>>>human+computer teams over single computers, even if the human is only an amateur >>>>player. >>> >>>Could you elaborate what this combination should be worth here for this game? >>> >>> >>>Rolf Tueschen >>> >>> >>>>No Elo-2000 player would have selected 12... Bf8 amongst a set of for >>>>instance three similarily evaluated candidate moves; and most Elo-2000 players >>>>would have prefered a candidate move like 13...Bd5 over the wrong pawn fixing >>>>13...b4. >>>> >>>>Ingo Althofer.
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