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Subject: Re: Apropos blocked positions.

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 15:02:35 10/06/02

Go up one level in this thread


On October 06, 2002 at 17:33:56, Dadi Jonsson wrote:

>On October 06, 2002 at 17:01:43, Dan Andersson wrote:
>
>>How long before your favourite engine finds the winning move?
>>[D]5k2/1q4bQ/5p1p/p1p1pPpP/2PpP1P1/Pp1P4/1P5K/5B2 b - - 0 1
>>A subvariation from a game I played against a computer recently. I'm black.
>>
>>MvH Dan Andersson
>
>A nice position for Black, but instead of asking for "the winning move" it's
>more interesting to try to find ALL the moves that lead to a victory for Black.
>
>Ruffian likes Qc7 and sees it as a winning line in around 2 minutes on an AMD
>1400. 1...a4 and 1...Qb6 probably also lead to the same conclusion. Possibly
>other moves also lead to a win.


Yace see nothing inspite of getting depth 22.

On the other hand old Deep Fritz is fast in seeing Qc7 but has no idea why it is
winning and the pv is only one move Qc7.
Movei at depth 18 can see advantage for black with a4 but no convincing score
(only +0.55 for black)

New position
5k2/1q4bQ/5p1p/p1p1pPpP/2PpP1P1/Pp1P4/1P5K/5B2 b - - 0 1

Analysis by Yace 0.99.56:

1...Qb7xe4 2.d3xe4
  +-  (8.28)   Depth: 1   00:00:00
1...Kf8-e8
  ³  (-0.34)   Depth: 1   00:00:00
1...Kf8-e8 2.Bf1-g2
  =  (-0.20)   Depth: 2   00:00:00
1...Kf8-e8 2.Qh7-g8+ Bg7-f8 3.Bf1-g2
  =  (-0.15)   Depth: 3   00:00:00
1...Qb7-c6 2.Kh2-g1
  =  (-0.19)   Depth: 3   00:00:00
1...Qb7-c6 2.Bf1-g2 Kf8-f7
  =  (-0.21)   Depth: 3   00:00:00
1...Qb7-c6 2.Bf1-g2 Kf8-f7 3.Qh7-g6+ Kf7-f8
  =  (-0.12)   Depth: 4   00:00:00
1...Qb7-f7 2.Kh2-g1
  =  (-0.15)   Depth: 4   00:00:00
1...Qb7-f7 2.Qh7-g6 Kf8-e7 3.Qg6xf7+ Ke7xf7
  =  (-0.17)   Depth: 4   00:00:00
1...a5-a4 2.Kh2-g1
  =  (-0.18)   Depth: 4   00:00:00
1...a5-a4 2.Bf1-g2 Kf8-e8 3.Qh7-g8+ Bg7-f8
  =  (-0.19)   Depth: 4   00:00:00
1...a5-a4 2.Bf1-g2 Qb7-c6 3.Qh7-g6 Qc6-d6
  =  (-0.19)   Depth: 5   00:00:00  4kN
1...a5-a4 2.Bf1-g2 Qb7-c6 3.Qh7-g6 Qc6-d6 4.Kh2-g1
  =  (-0.12)   Depth: 6   00:00:00  8kN
1...a5-a4 2.Bf1-g2 Qb7-f7 3.Qh7-g6 Qf7-e7 4.Kh2-g1 Qe7-d6
  =  (-0.12)   Depth: 7   00:00:00  15kN
1...Qb7-f7 2.Kh2-g1
  =  (-0.13)   Depth: 7   00:00:00  15kN
1...Qb7-f7 2.Kh2-g1 Kf8-e7 3.Qh7-g6 Qf7-g8 4.Bf1-g2 Ke7-d6
  =  (-0.16)   Depth: 7   00:00:00  15kN
1...Qb7-f7 2.Bf1-g2 Kf8-e7 3.Kh2-g3 Ke7-d6 4.Qh7-g6 Qf7-e7 5.Kg3-f3
  =  (-0.10)   Depth: 8   00:00:00  38kN
1...Qb7-f7 2.Qh7-g6 Kf8-e7 3.Qg6xf7+ Ke7xf7 4.a3-a4 Kf7-e7 5.Bf1-e2 Ke7-d7
  =  (-0.07)   Depth: 9   00:00:00  90kN
1...Qb7-f7 2.Qh7-g6 a5-a4 3.Kh2-g3 Qf7-c7 4.Kg3-f3 Qc7-a5 5.Kf3-e2 Qa5-c7
  =  (-0.02)   Depth: 10   00:00:00  178kN
1...Qb7-f7 2.Qh7-g6 a5-a4 3.Kh2-g3 Kf8-e7 4.Bf1-g2 Qf7-f8 5.Kg3-f3 Ke7-d6
6.Kf3-e2 Qf8-e7
  =  (-0.06)   Depth: 11   00:00:00  324kN
1...Qb7-f7 2.Qh7-g6 a5-a4 3.Kh2-g3 Kf8-e7 4.Bf1-g2 Qf7-f8 5.Kg3-f3 Ke7-d6
6.Kf3-e2 Qf8-e7 7.Ke2-d1
  =  (-0.04)   Depth: 12   00:00:01  411kN
1...Qb7-c6 2.Kh2-g3 Qc6-a4 3.Kg3-f3 Qa4xa3 4.b2xa3 b3-b2 5.Qh7-g6 b2-b1Q
6.Kf3-e2 a5-a4 7.Bf1-g2 Qb1-b3 8.Ke2-d2 Qb3xa3 9.Qg6xg5
  =  (-0.05)   Depth: 12   00:00:01  411kN
1...Qb7-c6 2.Qh7-g6 Qc6-a4 3.Bf1-e2 Qa4xa3 4.b2xa3 b3-b2 5.Be2-d1 b2-b1Q
6.Bd1-a4 Qb1-b2+ 7.Kh2-g3 Kf8-e7 8.Qg6xg7+ Ke7-d6
  =  (-0.04)   Depth: 12   00:00:01  411kN
1...Qb7-f7 2.Qh7-g6 a5-a4 3.Kh2-g3 Kf8-e7 4.Bf1-g2 Qf7-f8 5.Kg3-f3 Ke7-d6
6.Kf3-e2 Qf8-e7 7.Ke2-d1
  =  (-0.04)   Depth: 12   00:00:01  411kN
1...Qb7-f7 2.Qh7-g6 a5-a4 3.Kh2-g3 Kf8-e7 4.Bf1-g2 Qf7-f8 5.Kg3-f3 Ke7-d6
6.Kf3-e2 Qf8-e7 7.Ke2-d1 Qe7-d7
  =  (-0.05)   Depth: 13   00:00:02  875kN
1...Qb7-f7 2.Qh7-g6 a5-a4 3.Kh2-g3 Kf8-e7 4.Bf1-g2 Qf7-f8 5.Kg3-f3 Ke7-d6
6.Kf3-e2 Qf8-e7 7.Ke2-d1 Qe7-d7 8.Kd1-e1
  =  (-0.04)   Depth: 14   00:00:03  1302kN
1...Qb7-f7 2.Qh7-g6 a5-a4 3.Kh2-g3 Kf8-e7 4.Bf1-g2 Qf7-f8 5.Kg3-f3 Ke7-d6
6.Kf3-e2 Qf8-e7 7.Ke2-d1 Qe7-d7 8.Kd1-e1 Qd7-e7
  =  (-0.05)   Depth: 15   00:00:04  2117kN
1...Qb7-f7 2.Qh7-g6 a5-a4 3.Kh2-g3 Kf8-e7 4.Bf1-g2 Qf7-f8 5.Kg3-f3 Ke7-d6
6.Kf3-e2 Qf8-e7 7.Ke2-f1 Qe7-d7 8.Kf1-e1 Kd6-c6 9.Bg2-f3
  =  (-0.03)   Depth: 16   00:00:07  3087kN
1...Qb7-f7 2.Qh7-g6 a5-a4 3.Kh2-g3 Kf8-e7 4.Bf1-g2 Qf7-f8 5.Kg3-f3 Ke7-d6
6.Kf3-e2 Qf8-e7 7.Ke2-d1 Qe7-d7 8.Kd1-e2 Kd6-c6 9.Ke2-e1 Kc6-d6
  =  (-0.03)   Depth: 17   00:00:12  5125kN
1...Qb7-f7 2.Qh7-g6 a5-a4 3.Kh2-g3 Kf8-e7 4.Bf1-g2 Qf7-f8 5.Kg3-f3 Ke7-d6
6.Kf3-e2 Qf8-e7 7.Ke2-d1 Qe7-d7 8.Kd1-e2 Kd6-c6 9.Qg6-h7 Qd7-e7 10.Qh7-g6 Kc6-d7
11.Ke2-f3 Kd7-c6 12.Kf3-e2 Kc6-d7 13.Ke2-f3 Kd7-c6 14.Kf3-e2
  =  (-0.03)   Depth: 18   00:00:19  7997kN
1...Qb7-f7 2.Qh7-g6 a5-a4 3.Kh2-g3 Kf8-e7 4.Bf1-g2 Qf7-f8 5.Kg3-f3 Ke7-d6
6.Kf3-e2 Qf8-e7 7.Qg6-h7 Qe7-f7 8.Qh7-g6 Qf7-e7 9.Qg6-h7 Qe7-f7 10.Ke2-d1 Qf7-c7
11.Qh7-g8 Qc7-a5
  =  (-0.04)   Depth: 19   00:00:40  15796kN
1...Qb7-f7 2.Qh7-g6 a5-a4 3.Kh2-g3 Kf8-e7 4.Bf1-g2 Qf7-f8 5.Kg3-f3 Ke7-d6
6.Kf3-e2 Qf8-e7 7.Qg6-h7 Qe7-f7 8.Ke2-d1
  =  (-0.03)   Depth: 20   00:01:11  26710kN
1...Qb7-f7 2.Qh7-g6 a5-a4 3.Kh2-g3 Kf8-e7 4.Bf1-g2 Qf7-f8 5.Kg3-f3 Ke7-d6
6.Kf3-e2 Kd6-c7 7.Qg6-h7 Kc7-b6 8.Ke2-d1 Kb6-a5
  =  (-0.06)   Depth: 21   00:03:22  71811kN
1...Qb7-f7 2.Qh7-g6 a5-a4 3.Kh2-g3 Kf8-e7 4.Bf1-g2 Qf7-f8 5.Kg3-f3 Ke7-d8
6.Kf3-e2 Kd8-c7 7.Qg6-h7 Kc7-b6 8.Ke2-d1 Kb6-a5
  =  (-0.05)   Depth: 22   00:08:35  173006kN

(Blass, Tel-aviv 07.10.2002)

New position
5k2/1q4bQ/5p1p/p1p1pPpP/2PpP1P1/Pp1P4/1P5K/5B2 b - - 0 1

Analysis by Deep Fritz:

1...Qb7xe4--
  +-  (5.34)   Depth: 1/2   00:00:00
1...Qb7xe4-- 2.d3xe4
  +-  (7.37)   Depth: 1/3   00:00:00
1...a5-a4!
  +-  (2.41)   Depth: 1/3   00:00:00
1...a5-a4!
  =  (-0.19)   Depth: 1/3   00:00:00
1...a5-a4 2.Bf1-g2
  =  (-0.06)   Depth: 2/3   00:00:00
1...a5-a4 2.Bf1-g2 Qb7-f7
  =  (-0.06)   Depth: 3/6   00:00:00
1...a5-a4 2.Bf1-g2 Qb7-f7 3.Kh2-g1
  =  (-0.09)   Depth: 4/7   00:00:00
1...a5-a4 2.Bf1-g2 Qb7-e7 3.Kh2-g1 Qe7-d6
  =  (-0.09)   Depth: 5/8   00:00:00
1...a5-a4 2.Bf1-g2 Qb7-e7 3.Kh2-g1 Qe7-d6 4.Qh7-g6
  =  (-0.13)   Depth: 6/8   00:00:00  1kN
1...a5-a4 2.Bf1-g2 Qb7-e7 3.Kh2-g1 Qe7-f7 4.Bg2-f3 Qf7-e7
  =  (-0.06)   Depth: 7/12   00:00:00  2kN
1...a5-a4 2.Bf1-g2 Qb7-e7 3.Kh2-g1 Qe7-f7 4.Bg2-f3 Qf7-e7 5.Qh7-g6
  =  (-0.09)   Depth: 8/11   00:00:00  4kN
1...a5-a4 2.Bf1-g2 Qb7-e7 3.Kh2-g1 Qe7-f7 4.Qh7-g6 Qf7xg6 5.h5xg6 Kf8-g8
6.Kg1-f2
  =  (-0.06)   Depth: 9/12   00:00:00  6kN
1...a5-a4 2.Bf1-g2 Qb7-e7 3.Kh2-g1 Qe7-f7 4.Kg1-h2 Qf7-d7
  =  (-0.06)   Depth: 10/16   00:00:00  12kN
1...a5-a4 2.Bf1-g2 Qb7-e7 3.Kh2-g1 Qe7-f7 4.Kg1-h2 Qf7-d7
  =  (-0.06)   Depth: 11/19   00:00:00  21kN
1...a5-a4!
  ³  (-0.38)   Depth: 12/23   00:00:00  41kN
1...a5-a4 2.Kh2-g1 Qb7-c7 3.Kg1-f2 Qc7-a5 4.Kf2-e2 Qa5-d8 5.Bf1-g2 Qd8-c7
6.Ke2-f2
  ³  (-0.38)   Depth: 13/19   00:00:00  111kN
1...a5-a4 2.Kh2-g1 Qb7-c7 3.Kg1-f2 Qc7-a5 4.Kf2-e2 Qa5-d8 5.Bf1-g2 Qd8-c7
6.Ke2-d1 Qc7-a5 7.Kd1-e2
  =  (-0.25)   Depth: 14/22   00:00:00  174kN
1...Qb7-c7!
  ³  (-0.28)   Depth: 14/22   00:00:00  190kN
1...Qb7-d7!
  ³  (-0.31)   Depth: 14/24   00:00:00  277kN
1...Qb7-d7 2.Qh7-g6 Qd7-a4 3.Bf1-e2 Qa4-e8 4.Kh2-g1 Qe8-d8 5.Be2-f3 a5-a4
6.Kg1-h2
  ³  (-0.28)   Depth: 15/26   00:00:00  440kN
1...Qb7-d7 2.Qh7-g6 Qd7-a4 3.Bf1-e2 Qa4-e8 4.Kh2-g1 Qe8-d8 5.Be2-f3 a5-a4
6.Kg1-f2 Qd8-d6 7.Qg6-h7
  ³  (-0.28)   Depth: 16/27   00:00:01  650kN
1...Qb7-d7 2.Qh7-g6 Qd7-a4 3.Bf1-e2 Qa4-e8 4.Kh2-g1 Qe8-d8 5.Be2-f3 a5-a4
6.Kg1-f2 Qd8-a5 7.Kf2-e2
  ³  (-0.28)   Depth: 17/27   00:00:01  911kN
1...Qb7-d7 2.Qh7-g6 Qd7-a4 3.Bf1-e2 Qa4-e8 4.Kh2-g1 Qe8-d8 5.Be2-f3 a5-a4
6.Kg1-f2 Kf8-g8 7.Kf2-g1
  =  (-0.22)   Depth: 18/34   00:00:02  1590kN
1...Qb7-d7 2.Qh7-g6 Qd7-a4 3.Bf1-e2 Qa4-e8 4.Kh2-g1 Qe8-d8 5.Be2-f3 a5-a4
6.Kg1-f2 Qd8-e8 7.Kf2-g1
  =  (-0.22)   Depth: 19/35   00:00:04  2824kN
1...Qb7-d7 2.Qh7-g6 Qd7-a4 3.Bf1-e2 Qa4-e8 4.Kh2-g1 Qe8-d8 5.Kg1-f2 a5-a4
6.Be2-f3 Qd8-e8 7.Kf2-e2
  =  (0.06)   Depth: 20/38   00:00:09  5627kN
1...Qb7-c7!
  =  (0.03)   Depth: 20/38   00:00:10  6450kN
1...Qb7-c7!
  ³  (-0.28)   Depth: 21/40   00:00:17  10237kN
1...Qb7-c7 2.Kh2-g1 a5-a4 3.Kg1-f2 Qc7-a5 4.Kf2-e2 Qa5-c3 5.b2xc3 b3-b2 6.c3xd4
c5xd4 7.Ke2-f2
  ³  (-0.44)   Depth: 22/42   00:00:29  17627kN
1...Qb7-c7!
  µ  (-0.75)   Depth: 23/51   00:01:03  37255kN
1...Qb7-c7!
  µ  (-1.06)   Depth: 24/46   00:02:08  75797kN

(Blass, Tel-aviv 07.10.2002)

Uri



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