Author: Odd Gunnar Malin
Date: 04:06:17 10/08/02
Go up one level in this thread
On October 08, 2002 at 06:39:42, Uri Blass wrote: >On October 08, 2002 at 06:32:43, Kurt Utzinger wrote: > >>On October 08, 2002 at 05:52:11, Bernhard Bauer wrote: >> >>>On October 08, 2002 at 03:01:00, Kurt Utzinger wrote: >>> >>>>On October 07, 2002 at 23:11:32, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>> >>>>>On October 07, 2002 at 18:33:43, Jeremiah Penery wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On October 07, 2002 at 18:29:35, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On October 07, 2002 at 18:19:29, Jorge wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>This may be a dumb question, but could someone tell me the reason for setting >>>>>>>>Ponder=off in comp to comp matches? If two computers with the same hardware with >>>>>>>>different, each with a program playing each other, why set ponder off? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>thnx, >>>>>>>>jorge >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Usually the people who play games with ponder off use only one computer and not >>>>>>>2 computers. >>>>>> >>>>>>Why set ponder off with one computer? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>The basic idea is that one computer matches are not very informative. You have >>>>>two >>>>>choices: >>>>> >>>>>1. Ponder=on. Engines can "steal" time from each other since both will be >>>>>computing most >>>>>of the time. Unless one is unlucky enough to not have anything to ponder. For >>>>>that move, the >>>>>opponent runs twice as fast. >>>>> >>>>>2. Ponder=off. This might cause poor time utilization as it is an unnatural >>>>>way to run and >>>>>is not always very well tested. >>>>> >>>>>Either way causes problems. Moral? Use two computers or else don't pay a >>>>>significant amount >>>>>of attention to the results. >>>> >>>> >>>>Previous and still running tests with quite a lot of games in Germany prove that >>>>there is no significant difference in results between matches played with either >>>>ponder on/off. And most surprisingly - contrary to your assumption - this also >>>>refers to Crafty. >>>>Kurt >>>> >>>> >>>>The running test >>> >>>As many computer chess fans are only interested in results and not in game >>>quality it doesn't matter wether you play with ponder on or off. >>>And it doesn't matter wether you play a game using 2 hours for 40 moves or only >>>1 hour. The results are the same. >>>And it doesn't matter wether you play a game using 1 hours for 40 moves or only >>>30 minutes. The results are the same. I think that has been proven in Germany. >>>And Crafty plays better without ponder than with ponder has been posted in >>>Germany too. >>>So what? Let them play without ponder at all. >>>regards >>>Bernhard >> >>Hi Bernhard >>Your conclusion is wrong. If you use two PC's and let one program play with >>ponder=on and the other one with ponder=off, the program without ponder will >>have no chance. >>Kurt > >Pondering may help but saying that the program without ponder will have no >chance is clearly wrong. > >Uri I'm sure he meant the same program on each PC. If the PC with the pondering engine don't win the match there have to be something wrong with the implementation. Of course you need some games to lower the errorbar. But anyway, there is some info to get from tournament with ponder off, so keep doing them. I think most people (except cc-folks) use the strongest engines for analyzing, and then a ratingdifference of +-50 elo isn't so important. In addition maybe a ponder off tournament shows better the analyze quality of engines. Odd Gunnar (This is not a start for a discussion about analyzing)
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