Author: Kurt Utzinger
Date: 04:24:19 10/08/02
Go up one level in this thread
On October 08, 2002 at 07:06:17, Odd Gunnar Malin wrote: >On October 08, 2002 at 06:39:42, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On October 08, 2002 at 06:32:43, Kurt Utzinger wrote: >> >>>On October 08, 2002 at 05:52:11, Bernhard Bauer wrote: >>> >>>>On October 08, 2002 at 03:01:00, Kurt Utzinger wrote: >>>> >>>>>On October 07, 2002 at 23:11:32, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On October 07, 2002 at 18:33:43, Jeremiah Penery wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On October 07, 2002 at 18:29:35, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On October 07, 2002 at 18:19:29, Jorge wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>This may be a dumb question, but could someone tell me the reason for setting >>>>>>>>>Ponder=off in comp to comp matches? If two computers with the same hardware with >>>>>>>>>different, each with a program playing each other, why set ponder off? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>thnx, >>>>>>>>>jorge >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Usually the people who play games with ponder off use only one computer and not >>>>>>>>2 computers. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Why set ponder off with one computer? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>The basic idea is that one computer matches are not very informative. You have >>>>>>two >>>>>>choices: >>>>>> >>>>>>1. Ponder=on. Engines can "steal" time from each other since both will be >>>>>>computing most >>>>>>of the time. Unless one is unlucky enough to not have anything to ponder. For >>>>>>that move, the >>>>>>opponent runs twice as fast. >>>>>> >>>>>>2. Ponder=off. This might cause poor time utilization as it is an unnatural >>>>>>way to run and >>>>>>is not always very well tested. >>>>>> >>>>>>Either way causes problems. Moral? Use two computers or else don't pay a >>>>>>significant amount >>>>>>of attention to the results. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Previous and still running tests with quite a lot of games in Germany prove that >>>>>there is no significant difference in results between matches played with either >>>>>ponder on/off. And most surprisingly - contrary to your assumption - this also >>>>>refers to Crafty. >>>>>Kurt >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>The running test >>>> >>>>As many computer chess fans are only interested in results and not in game >>>>quality it doesn't matter wether you play with ponder on or off. >>>>And it doesn't matter wether you play a game using 2 hours for 40 moves or only >>>>1 hour. The results are the same. >>>>And it doesn't matter wether you play a game using 1 hours for 40 moves or only >>>>30 minutes. The results are the same. I think that has been proven in Germany. >>>>And Crafty plays better without ponder than with ponder has been posted in >>>>Germany too. >>>>So what? Let them play without ponder at all. >>>>regards >>>>Bernhard >>> >>>Hi Bernhard >>>Your conclusion is wrong. If you use two PC's and let one program play with >>>ponder=on and the other one with ponder=off, the program without ponder will >>>have no chance. >>>Kurt >> >>Pondering may help but saying that the program without ponder will have no >>chance is clearly wrong. >> >>Uri > >I'm sure he meant the same program on each PC. If the PC with the pondering >engine don't win the match there have to be something wrong with the >implementation. Of course you need some games to lower the errorbar. > >But anyway, there is some info to get from tournament with ponder off, so keep >doing them. I think most people (except cc-folks) use the strongest engines for >analyzing, and then a ratingdifference of +-50 elo isn't so important. In >addition maybe a ponder off tournament shows better the analyze quality of >engines. > >Odd Gunnar >(This is not a start for a discussion about analyzing) Of course, I meant the same program on each PC. Kurt
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