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Subject: Re: Feng-Hsiung Hsu's talk at Microsoft

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 07:50:20 10/08/02

On October 08, 2002 at 07:08:51, Uri Blass wrote:

>On October 08, 2002 at 00:52:38, Eugene Nalimov wrote:
>
>>Wrong.
>>
>>Today I visited the talk by Feng-Hsiung Hsu he gave at Microsoft. Here are some
>>points from memory:
>>
>>They used forward pruning in the hardware, and according to Hsu it gives them
>>5x-10x speedup. He wrote about that in the book, too, but without any details.
>
>
>Can you ask him if 12(6) really means 12 plies in the software and 6 plies in
>the hardware?
>
>A second question is if the plies in the hardware were selective search from the
>first ply.
>
>>In the talk he named that pruning as "analogy cutoff" and mentioned that "if the
>>move is useless in some position, it is also useless in the similar position".
>>In the book he writes "it can be done in the hardware as long as it does not
>>have to be 100% correct".
>>
>>They used null-move thread detection, as well as not only singular extension,
>>but also extension on only 2 or 3 good replies. They used fractional extensions.
>>He also says that their Q-search is much more powerful than the one that is
>>usually used in the software-only programs.
>>
>>Hsu gave some details why they don't use null-move:
>>(1) He thinks that singular extensions and null-move gave more-or-less the same
>>rating difference (100-200 points IIRC).
>
>I think that he underestimates null-move pruning.
>
>I believe that for long time control null move pruning gives more than 100-200
>points.
>
>People may try Fritz with selectivity=0 to find it's rating without null move.
>
>Uri


I can assure you it doesn't.  Several of us ran this experiment in the past.  It
produced a 50-100
point improvement at most.  Bruce ran it first.  I then repeated it to see if
his result held for me
as well.  50-100 is nothing to sneeze at of course...  But that is all it will
give...

Re: Feng-Hsiung Hsu's talk at Microsoft Uri Blass 07:55:29 10/08/02
- Re: Feng-Hsiung Hsu's talk at Microsoft Robert Hyatt 09:10:41 10/08/02
  - Re: Feng-Hsiung Hsu's talk at Microsoft Uri Blass 09:22:30 10/08/02
    - Re: Feng-Hsiung Hsu's talk at Microsoft Robert Hyatt 10:16:22 10/08/02
      - Re: Feng-Hsiung Hsu's talk at Microsoft Uri Blass 10:26:52 10/08/02
        
        Re: Feng-Hsiung Hsu's talk at Microsoft Robert Hyatt 11:33:05 10/08/02
        
        Re: Feng-Hsiung Hsu's talk at Microsoft Uri Blass 12:11:56 10/08/02
        
        Re: Feng-Hsiung Hsu's talk at Microsoft Robert Hyatt 08:17:36 10/09/02
        
        null-move vs non-null-move Robert Hyatt 20:06:48 10/09/02
        
        Re: null-move vs non-null-move Tony Werten 00:05:28 10/10/02
        
        Re: null-move vs non-null-move Vincent Diepeveen 04:56:34 10/11/02
        
        Re: null-move vs non-null-move Uri Blass 00:30:18 10/10/02
        
        Re: null-move vs non-null-move Uri Blass 23:01:51 10/09/02
        
        Re: null-move vs non-null-move Robert Hyatt 11:29:56 10/10/02
        
        Re: null-move vs non-null-move Russell Reagan 01:43:55 10/11/02
        
        Re: null-move vs non-null-move Robert Hyatt 10:15:28 10/11/02
        
        Re: null-move vs non-null-move Russell Reagan 10:39:29 10/11/02
        
        Re: null-move vs non-null-move Robert Hyatt 19:46:38 10/11/02
        
        Re: null-move vs non-null-move Alessandro Damiani 03:51:47 10/10/02
        
        Re: null-move vs non-null-move Vincent Diepeveen 05:04:21 10/11/02
        
        Re: null-move vs non-null-move Alessandro Damiani 08:32:22 10/11/02
        
        Re: null-move vs non-null-move Vincent Diepeveen 10:17:10 10/11/02
        
        Re: null-move vs non-null-move Jeremiah Penery 10:23:12 10/11/02
        
        Re: null-move vs non-null-move Uri Blass 06:09:21 10/10/02
        
        Re: null-move vs non-null-move Sune Fischer 09:01:43 10/10/02
        
        Re: null-move vs non-null-move Uri Blass 10:09:45 10/10/02
        
        Re: null-move vs non-null-move Sune Fischer 10:22:27 10/10/02
        
        Re: Feng-Hsiung Hsu's talk at Microsoft Peter Berger 13:52:49 10/08/02
        
        Re: Feng-Hsiung Hsu's talk at Microsoft Robert Hyatt 13:28:39 10/08/02
        
        Re: Feng-Hsiung Hsu's talk at Microsoft Angrim 14:19:39 10/08/02
        
        Re: Feng-Hsiung Hsu's talk at Microsoft Uri Blass 15:25:08 10/08/02
        
        Re: Feng-Hsiung Hsu's talk at Microsoft Uri Blass 15:41:36 10/08/02
        
        Re: Feng-Hsiung Hsu's talk at Microsoft Roy Eassa 15:10:30 10/08/02

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