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Subject: Re: Behting position

Author: blass uri

Date: 02:07:20 08/31/98

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On August 31, 1998 at 05:02:30, Enrique Irazoqui wrote:

>On August 30, 1998 at 18:40:51, James Robertson wrote:
>
>>On August 30, 1998 at 09:46:29, Enrique Irazoqui wrote:
>>
>>>[Event ""Rigasche Rundschau""]
>>>[Site "?"]
>>>[Date "1907.??.??"]
>>>[Round "?"]
>>>[White "Behting"]
>>>[Black "?"]
>>>[Result "1-0"]
>>>[SetUp "1"]
>>>[FEN "8/8/8/5pp1/8/1K6/2pp1Q2/2k5 w - - 0 1"]
>>>[PlyCount "5"]
>>>[EventDate "1907.??.??"]
>>>
>>>1. Qe3 f4 2. Qf2 d1=Q (2... f3 3. Qe3) 3. Kc3 f3 4. Qe3+ Kb1 5. Qb6+ Kc1 6. Qb2#
>>>1-0
>>>
>>>This is a relatively simple position where white wins in 12 plies or less, but
>>>several programs fail to find Qe3, even after a search deeper than 12 plies.
>>>
>>>After at least 5 minutes on a PII-400 with 256 MB RAM, Hiarcs 6, Fritz 5, Mchess
>>>7.1, Nimzo 98, Crafty 15.17, Exchess 2.34 and Junior 4.6 don’t find the
>>>solution. Junior plays instantaneously Kc3?? and announces mate in 4,
>>>overlooking the obvious underpromotion d1N+.
>>>
>>>Time to find Qe3 with a winning evaluation:
>>>Genius 5W, 13 secs.
>>>Rebel 9, 30 secs.
>>>Rebel 10, 24 secs.
>>>Shredder 2, 24 secs.
>>>
>>>Strange that there is so much difference between programs in this position.
>>>
>>>What would Ferret, Dark Thought and others play?
>>>seconds on my P233. Is there a forced mate in 12 plies? Chessmaster after 13 plies and 5 minutes 30 seconds still thinks White is ahead only by 8.24 points.
>>>Enrique
>>
>>I tried the Chessmaster 5500 on this problem and it came up with Qe3 in 9
>>Arasan 4.1 finds the solution after 1 minute 21 seconds, and 11 plies
>>(Chessmaster 5500 took only about 9 plies). Are you sure there isn't something
>>wrong with the FEN position you gave or something? It seems unlikely that the
>>programs on your PII 400mhz would do so poorly, compared with the success on my
>>P233.
>
>I am sure the FEN is right and I was surprised myself. That's why I posted this
>position...
>
>Enrique

I am not surprised because it is a null move problem and white must see
an underpromotion(this is rare in real games)

Uri
>
>>James



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