Author: blass uri
Date: 03:16:01 09/01/98
Go up one level in this thread
On September 01, 1998 at 05:28:48, Bernhard Bauer wrote: >On August 30, 1998 at 09:46:29, Enrique Irazoqui wrote: > >>[Event ""Rigasche Rundschau""] >>[Site "?"] >>[Date "1907.??.??"] >>[Round "?"] >>[White "Behting"] >>[Black "?"] >>[Result "1-0"] >>[SetUp "1"] >>[FEN "8/8/8/5pp1/8/1K6/2pp1Q2/2k5 w - - 0 1"] >>[PlyCount "5"] >>[EventDate "1907.??.??"] >> >>1. Qe3 f4 2. Qf2 d1=Q (2... f3 3. Qe3) 3. Kc3 f3 4. Qe3+ Kb1 5. Qb6+ Kc1 6. Qb2# >>1-0 >> >>This is a relatively simple position where white wins in 12 plies or less, but >>several programs fail to find Qe3, even after a search deeper than 12 plies. >> >>After at least 5 minutes on a PII-400 with 256 MB RAM, Hiarcs 6, Fritz 5, Mchess >>7.1, Nimzo 98, Crafty 15.17, Exchess 2.34 and Junior 4.6 don’t find the >>solution. Junior plays instantaneously Kc3?? and announces mate in 4, >>overlooking the obvious underpromotion d1N+. >> >>Time to find Qe3 with a winning evaluation: >>Genius 5W, 13 secs. >>Rebel 9, 30 secs. >>Rebel 10, 24 secs. >>Shredder 2, 24 secs. >> >>Strange that there is so much difference between programs in this position. >> >>What would Ferret, Dark Thought and others play? >> >>Enrique > >Dear Enrique, > >Tu etiam ... !!! > >You should have known better -:) This type of positions *never* occurs in >reall games and if it occurs than only in 0.0000000000001 % of all cases. I am sure that it occurs more often but I understand the practical reasons for not solving this position. >Programmers are interested in playing games - not in solving studies!! >By the way, a studie is a position we can not solve within a resonable amount >of time. So not solving this position is a feature! > And it makes the program >faster and playing better in 99.9999999999999 % of all possible positions. I do not agree about it because there is an option to use better rules when not to use the null move feature. Uri >We have been told that so often that you should know. >Or do you dare to say something against the null move feature? > >Here some output from a modified crafty - *no* null move. > > Qe3+ Qd2 5. Qg1+ Qd1 6. Qe3+ > 11-> 58.67 -0.66 1. Ka2 f4 2. Kb3 f3 3. Ka2 d1=Q 4. > Qe3+ Qd2 5. Qg1+ Qd1 6. Qe3+ > 12 1:43 -0.66 1. Ka2 d1=Q 2. Qe3+ Qd2 3. Qg1+ Qd1 > 4. Qe3+ > 12 2:49 ++ 1. Qe3!! > 12 3:06 5.96 1. Qe3 f4 2. Qf2 f3 3. Qe3 f2 4. Qxf2 > g4 5. Qe3 g3 6. Kc3 Kb1 7. Kxd2 > 12-> 3:06 5.96 1. Qe3 f4 2. Qf2 f3 3. Qe3 f2 4. Qxf2 > g4 5. Qe3 g3 6. Kc3 Kb1 7. Kxd2 > 13 3:13 ++ 1. Qe3!! > 13 3:49 9.24 1. Qe3 f4 2. Qf2 f3 3. Qe3 g4 4. Kc3 > Kb1 5. Qb6+ Kc1 6. Qb2+ Kd1 7. Qxc2+ > Ke1 8. Qxd2+ Kf1 9. Qg5 Ke2 10. Qxg4 > 13-> 5:41 9.24 1. Qe3 f4 2. Qf2 f3 3. Qe3 g4 4. Kc3 > Kb1 5. Qb6+ Kc1 6. Qb2+ Kd1 7. Qxc2+ > Ke1 8. Qxd2+ Kf1 9. Qg5 Ke2 10. Qxg4 > 14 6:00 ++ 1. Qe3!! > 14 8:03 Mat17 1. Qe3 f4 2. Qf2 f3 3. Qe3 g4 4. Kc3 > Kb1 5. Qb6+ Kc1 6. Qb2+ Kd1 7. Qxc2+ > Ke1 8. Qxd2+ Kf1 9. Qg5 Ke2 10. Qxg4 > > 14-> 13:02 Mat17 1. Qe3 f4 2. Qf2 f3 3. Qe3 g4 4. Kc3 > Kb1 5. Qb6+ Kc1 6. Qb2+ Kd1 7. Qxc2+ > Ke1 8. Qxd2+ Kf1 9. Qg5 Ke2 10. Qxg4 > > time: 13:02 cpu:200% mat:6 n:158539669 nps:202622 > ext-> checks:23356809 recaps:392669 pawns:1749198 1rep:4192114 > predicted:0 nodes:158539669 evals:2801460 > endgame tablebase-> probes done: 2012494 successful: 2012494 > hashing-> trans/ref:70% pawn:12% used:w99% b99% > >mate in 17 moves. > >Please take the above with a grain of salt. -:))) >Kind regards > >Bernhard
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