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Subject: Re: Live chat with Feng-Hsiung Hsu (of Deep Blue fame) on ICC

Author: Omid David

Date: 14:51:27 10/11/02

Go up one level in this thread


On October 11, 2002 at 11:51:13, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On October 11, 2002 at 07:43:40, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On October 11, 2002 at 07:12:34, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>
>>>On October 11, 2002 at 04:08:49, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>
>>>Isn't his article clear enough yet?
>>
>>Bob Hyatt still claims that it was 12 plies software and 6 plies hardware
>>so I prefer to hear an answer directly from Hsu.
>
>I agree.  But _I_ don't claiam _anything_ except that members of the DB team
>specifically told me that 12(6) means 12 plies in hardware, 6 in software.  I
>even posted the excerpt from the email that specifically said this...
>
>That is _all_ I have said about it...
>

No matter what they say, even under extreme theoretical conditions it is
*impossible* to search 18 plies of brute force in chess, without any type of
forward pruning whatsoever, and no hash tables.



>
>
>
>>
>>>
>>>reporting a 12.2 average search depth fullwidth.
>>>I guess you never searched with a decent program fullwidth
>>>with extensions. If you did, you would understand that
>>>getting 12.2 ply fullwidth with loads of extensions is already nearly
>>>impossible. Every extended line is searched to the full depth,
>>>no pruning happens!
>>
>>I agree that 12.2 plies with a lot of extensions and no pruning is impossible
>>for normal programs and also is impossible for deep blue in case that
>>there were real 6 more plies in the hardware.
>>
>>The only case when it may be possible is if the 6 more plies in the hardware are
>>real selective search and it means more pruning than null move with R=3 and in
>>this case the 6 plies in the hardware may be eqvivalent to only 2 plies in
>>software because of big probability to miss things.
>>
>>>
>>>The interesting 2 questions are
>>>  a) did DB use 'no-progress pruning' in SOFTWARE (we know
>>>     already it used it in hardware).
>>
>>They explained in the article that they did not want to take risks of missing
>>something in the first plies so it is clear that they did no pruning in the
>>first 12 plies.
>>
>>If they did some pruning in the software it is clearly after it.
>>
>>I do not know what is exactly no progress pruning.
>>Is there a difference between it and null move pruning?
>>
>>Is no progress pruning more aggresive than null move pruning?
>>
>>Uri



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