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Subject: Re: Proposal for a new CC

Author: Rick Terry

Date: 16:53:08 10/14/02

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On October 14, 2002 at 19:25:46, Rolf Tueschen wrote:

>On October 11, 2002 at 23:26:59, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>You keep bringing this up, so here's a challenge:
>>
>>Formulate a rule (or rules) governing opening book knowledge.  The rule has to
>>be fair
>>to both players (computer and human) and the rule _must_ be enforcable or it
>>will be
>>useless.
>>
>>What would you like to see and why?
>>\
>
>First of all I know that I can't formulate such rules. I see you already in the
>starting blocks to prove the impossibility. Just the same debate we had in the
>topic about the prevention of cheating.
>
>Let me make a little proposal. Why we together couldn't find a solution? This is
>not a court room. Why do you want to work against solutions?
>
>Another point: why is it so difficult to understand the strength of a concept
>that says, let's find a solution for a honest CC. Without all the fishy tricks.
>A ouple of hours ago I read a quote from Feng Hsu who said naively that chess
>should well be about some secrecy on both sides...
>
>But I disagree. I hope you can follow when I say that you won't beat the
>creativity of human players with all your machines. Yes? So why not accept that
>you are not there to invent sophisticated tricks to beat human players with your
>machines but that you should your work as scientists. I'm talking to you as well
>as Hsu!
>
>Somehow it seems to me that you had a perverted understanding of science.
>
>You should develop machines that are sophisticated at chess, but not
>sophisticated tricks to psych out human opponents! Tell me what you would reply.
>
>I think we must make a real ethical revolution in CC to stop that nonsense about
>the dream that suddenly 1800 or weaker operators or programmers (I'm not talking
>about you in person) could bet super GM just with the support of machines. That
>is not the concept of CC I would prefer. Because then we are right back in the
>middle of new cheats! I think Hsu made an beautiful unconscious confession. He
>likes the secrecy and the tricks...
>
>But as we could see in Bahrain, the whole hyperbole is unbelievable. Because
>Fritz can't play such positions yet Kramnik presented in games 1 to 4. And
>probably DB2 wouldn't have done better.
>
>Let me make this very clear. Say, we had a really strong chess playing machine
>in 20 years - - _then_ that monster would hopefully have a few tricks on its own
>to play a match against the human Wch. Know what I mean? But today I do not want
>to see one Hsu or one Friedel play such tricky games. That's ridiculous in my
>eyes. So I hope I could make clear what I want. I do also dream of a fantastic
>computer playing fantastic chess. But I detest tricky operators using some
>tricks to psych out the GM. That might be real fun for them personally, but this
>is not what I expected from scientists.
>
>Could we agree so far and find new solutions for definitions how machines should
>be supported along the FIDE rules? Or is it impossible to talk with you because
>you just prefer to fight the old stuff again when you were a young student and
>had the impression that you had to find certain rules made on the CC level
>alone. If you want to cooperate then you should think about the FIDE rules. And
>then it's not really a help if you or other people try to define me as the
>representative of some evil force who would like to harm CC...
>
>Rolf Tueschen


  I think you should seek Psychaitric Help you are a very confused indivisual!



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