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Subject: Re: Proposal for getting over it

Author: Matthew Hull

Date: 04:47:59 10/15/02

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On October 15, 2002 at 03:44:01, Uri Blass wrote:

>On October 15, 2002 at 00:55:20, Matthew Hull wrote:
>
>>On October 14, 2002 at 20:31:46, Rolf Tueschen wrote:
>>
>>>On October 14, 2002 at 20:11:58, martin fierz wrote:
>>>
>>>>On October 14, 2002 at 19:25:46, Rolf Tueschen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On October 11, 2002 at 23:26:59, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>You keep bringing this up, so here's a challenge:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Formulate a rule (or rules) governing opening book knowledge.  The rule has to
>>>>>>be fair
>>>>>>to both players (computer and human) and the rule _must_ be enforcable or it
>>>>>>will be
>>>>>>useless.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>What would you like to see and why?
>>>>>>\
>>>>>
>>>>>First of all I know that I can't formulate such rules. I see you already in the
>>>>>starting blocks to prove the impossibility. Just the same debate we had in the
>>>>>topic about the prevention of cheating.
>>>>>
>>>>>Let me make a little proposal. Why we together couldn't find a solution? This is
>>>>>not a court room. Why do you want to work against solutions?
>>>>>
>>>>>Another point: why is it so difficult to understand the strength of a concept
>>>>>that says, let's find a solution for a honest CC. Without all the fishy tricks.
>>>>>A ouple of hours ago I read a quote from Feng Hsu who said naively that chess
>>>>>should well be about some secrecy on both sides...
>>>>
>>>>there is nothing wrong with this. his quote was IIRC that a computer-human match
>>>>should be like a human-human match, with some "secrets for both sides". what he
>>>>means is that in a normal human-human match, the opponents prepare for the match
>>>>in secret, then show up and try to surprise their opponent. like kramnik playing
>>>>the berlin defence against kasparov in their match.
>>>>that is what he meant, and that is perfectly ok.
>>>>
>>>>aloha
>>>>  martin
>>>
>>>But that is not ok if we are talking about little Fritz vs Kramnik or DB2&team
>>>against Kasparov. NB that the conditions enforced by Kramnik were a consequence
>>>out of the events in the Kasparov event.
>>
>>
>>
>>It has always seemed to me that the objections to the DB2/kasparov match were
>>not reasonable, and that the current match conditions were an attempt to correct
>>a problem that never existed in the first place.  As a result, the attempts to
>>fix a non-existant problem has resulted in a ridiculous match that no one is
>>happy with (except maybe me.  Poetic justice.).  Ultimately, comparisons of the
>>DB2 match and the DF match will reveal that DB's power was truely scary and DF's
>>was not.  Kasparov was frightened by DB2 (and for good reason).  Kramnik is not
>>afraid of DF.  Kasparov will not be afraid of his next computer opponent.
>
>The main problem is that kasparov knew nothing about the opponent.
>
>He had no previous games of the opponent when he has previous games of human
>opponents.
>
>Fair conditions mean that  DB2 first play games against other opponents.


Kasparov agreed to the conditions.  He played a previous version before.  He
thought it would be a cake walk.  It wasn't.  Besides, the machine was not ready
until just before the match.  It really was not even finished, and it still won.


>
>Kasaprov have games of Junior from the last months(when Junior won the computer
>world championship) when kasparov did not have games of deeper blue from 1997
>when it had to prove itself against computers or humans
>
>Uri



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