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Subject: Re: DeepBlue && SingularExtensions && !Nullmoving

Author: Vincent Diepeveen

Date: 04:06:30 10/16/02

Go up one level in this thread


On October 16, 2002 at 06:52:17, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:

>On October 16, 2002 at 06:39:08, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>
>>On October 16, 2002 at 06:37:40, Thorsten Czub wrote:
>>
>>>On October 16, 2002 at 06:33:39, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
>>>
>>>>It uses (I wouldn't say wastes) quite a bit of resources,
>>>>but there is also a gain. I find that it is almost perfectly
>>>>breaking even for me. I search less deep, but I am seeing
>>>>some deep tactics and avoid getting into some dangerous
>>>>situations.
>>>
>>>really ?!
>>>
>>>interesting.
>>>
>>>i gave up using SEX in rebel XP....
>>
>>the problem of SE shows when search depths get big.
>>GCP is basically testing at bullet levels and then you don't
>>get search depths of 12+ ply soon.
>
>I don't notice them worsening things at longer time controls
>either, but then again, I've never been a very deep searcher,
>though things are changing.
>
>I also understand that you do the full Hsu thing, so your
>overhead must be a lot bigger.

I do way more. I can do way more. The nonsense lines get
pruned by nullmove. In Hsu's creations they were not.

>If I find that with increasing hardware speed/slower timecontrols
>it does start getting worse, I will uncheck the 'singular extensions'
>checkbox and problem solved :)
>
>>In DIEP the price of SE is basically getting too big at those depths.
>
>I gather from this you won't be using them this weekend? Or is
>90m SD also 'bullet'?

I am talking about the crucial 12 ply search depth for DIEP.
I will be getting about 10-12, so the weakest spot is those 10 ply
searches. There i will be using SE.

My overhead at 10 ply is about half a ply for SE. But at 12 ply
it can be easily 2 ply. Doesn't need to be so. Nullmove sometimes powerful
prunes away the stuff in quiet positions.

It's the tactical positions where sometimes even a 11 ply search depth
has plies overhead. SE is a very stupid extension in fact. I am sure
in the far future it's too stupid to let your b.f. worsen with it.

It makes my b.f. simply a lot worse. With 3 ply reduction however
the worsening starts not directly. Because in the root i don't do 'em
and the last 3 ply i don't do them. So i save 4 ply.

It's trivial that at 12 ply you feel it for 8 ply and at 10 ply you
'just' feel it for 6 ply.

In other words it's % from 10 ply is 60% of search depth. At 12 ply it's 75%
of total search depth.

That triggers more.

Suppose in a few years we all get 15 ply. For me within 1 year perhaps
(if i get some processors from NWO to use). I can't afford SE then simply.

DB never was tested very well, let's be realistic here. Otherwise he
might have kicked it out too and would have gotten more nodes a second
then.


>--
>GCP



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