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Subject: Re: Why this move is so difficult for engines ?

Author: Joachim Rang

Date: 12:56:41 10/17/02

Go up one level in this thread


On October 17, 2002 at 14:57:30, Ernst Walet wrote:

>On October 17, 2002 at 04:51:28, Christophe Drieu wrote:
>
>>[D] 8/4k3/4p3/pp5p/6p1/2P2rP1/PPK2R1P/8 w - - 0 1
>>
>>Rxf3 !
>
>
>Hiarcs8 finds it fast and gets a good score as well.
>
>New game
>8/4k3/4p3/pp5p/6p1/2P2rP1/PPK2R1P/8 w - - 0 1
>
>Analysis by Hiarcs 8:
>
>1.Rxf3 gxf3
>  =  (-0.12)   Depth: 4/15   00:00:00
>1.Rxf3 gxf3
>  =  (-0.12)   Depth: 4/15   00:00:00
>1.Rxf3 gxf3
>  =  (-0.12)   Depth: 4/15   00:00:00
>1.Rxf3 gxf3
>  =  (-0.12)   Depth: 4/15   00:00:00
>1.Rxf3 gxf3
>  =  (-0.12)   Depth: 4/15   00:00:00
>1.Rxf3 gxf3
>  =  (-0.12)   Depth: 4/15   00:00:00
>1.Rxf3 gxf3
>  =  (-0.12)   Depth: 4/15   00:00:00
>1.Rxf3 gxf3 2.Kd3 h4 3.Ke3 hxg3 4.hxg3
>  ±  (0.95)   Depth: 4/15   00:00:00
>1.Rxf3 gxf3
>  ²  (0.65)   Depth: 5/15   00:00:00  4kN
>1.Rxf3 gxf3 2.Kd3 e5 3.h3 e4+ 4.Ke3 a4
>  µ  (-0.77)   Depth: 5/16   00:00:00  7kN
>1.Rd2 Kf6 2.b3 Ke5 3.c4
>  ³  (-0.34)   Depth: 5/16   00:00:00  8kN
>1.Rd2 Kf6 2.b3 Ke5 3.c4 bxc4 4.bxc4
>  ³  (-0.31)   Depth: 6/16   00:00:00  13kN
>1.Rxf3 a4
>  =  (-0.07)   Depth: 6/16   00:00:00  17kN
>1.Rxf3 gxf3 2.Kd2 e5 3.a4 e4 4.axb5
>  ±  (1.05)   Depth: 6/16   00:00:00  21kN
>1.Rxf3 gxf3
>  ±  (0.76)   Depth: 7/16   00:00:00  31kN
>1.Rxf3 gxf3 2.Kd3 e5 3.b3 e4+ 4.Ke3 b4 5.c4 Kd6
>  ³  (-0.63)   Depth: 7/18   00:00:00  53kN
>1.Rd2 Kf6 2.b3 Ke5 3.c4 bxc4 4.bxc4
>  ³  (-0.31)   Depth: 7/19   00:00:00  59kN
>1.Rd2 Kf6 2.b3 b4 3.c4 Rc3+ 4.Kb2 Kf5 5.a3
>  =  (-0.23)   Depth: 8/22   00:00:00  97kN
>1.Rd2 Kf6 2.b3 b4 3.c4 Rc3+ 4.Kb2 Ke5 5.Re2+ Kd6 6.a3
>  =  (-0.24)   Depth: 9/22   00:00:01  188kN
>1.Rd2 a4 2.b3 e5 3.Rd5 Ke6 4.Rxb5 Rf2+ 5.Kd3 Rxa2
>  =  (-0.23)   Depth: 10/23   00:00:02  461kN
>1.Rxf3 gxf3
>  =  (0.02)   Depth: 10/23   00:00:03  571kN
>1.Rxf3 gxf3 2.Kd2 e5 3.a4 bxa4 4.h3 Kf6 5.Ke3 e4 6.g4
>  ±  (1.07)   Depth: 10/23   00:00:03  632kN
>1.Rxf3 gxf3 2.Kd2 e5 3.a4 bxa4 4.h4 Kf6 5.g4 hxg4 6.Ke3 Kf5
>  ±  (0.97)   Depth: 11/23   00:00:05  989kN
>1.Rxf3 gxf3 2.Kd2 e5 3.a4 bxa4 4.h3 Kf6 5.c4 f2 6.Ke2 Kg5 7.Kxf2 Kf6
>  ±  (1.19)   Depth: 12/26   00:00:08  1758kN
>1.Rxf3 gxf3 2.Kd3 e5 3.b3 e4+ 4.Ke3 Kd6 5.h3 Kc5 6.a4 bxa4 7.bxa4 f2 8.Kxf2
>  ±  (1.32)   Depth: 13/28   00:00:17  3734kN
>1.Rxf3 gxf3
>  +-  (1.57)   Depth: 14/28   00:00:20  4386kN
>1.Rxf3 gxf3 2.Kd3 e5 3.Ke3 e4 4.a4 bxa4 5.h3 a3 6.bxa3 Kf6 7.c4 f2
>  +-  (1.92)   Depth: 14/35   00:00:32  6829kN, tb=1
>1.Rxf3 gxf3
>  +-  (2.17)   Depth: 15/35   00:00:43  9404kN, tb=2
>1.Rxf3 gxf3 2.Kd2 e5 3.a4 bxa4 4.h3 Kf6 5.c4 a3 6.bxa3 Kg5 7.Ke3 f2 8.Kxf2 a4
>  +-  (2.50)   Depth: 15/37   00:01:13  15956kN, tb=2
>1.Rxf3 gxf3
>  +-  (2.75)   Depth: 16/37   00:01:33  20012kN, tb=4
>1.Rxf3 gxf3 2.Kd2 Kd6 3.Ke3 f2 4.Kxf2 a4 5.Kf3 e5 6.h3 Ke6 7.g4 h4 8.Ke4 a3
>  +-  (2.88)   Depth: 16/37   00:02:41  34006kN, tb=4
>
>(Athlon 4 XP1500+, 64MB hash 17.10.2002)
>
>
>
>Ernst.


but has problems a few moves later:

[D] 8/8/4k3/pp5p/4p3/2P1KpPP/PP6/8 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Hiarcs 8:

5.a4 bxa4 6.g4 hxg4 7.hxg4
  +-  (3.58)   Tiefe: 7/15   00:00:00
5.a4 bxa4 6.g4 hxg4 7.hxg4
  +-  (3.58)   Tiefe: 7/15   00:00:00
5.a4 bxa4 6.g4 hxg4 7.hxg4
  +-  (3.58)   Tiefe: 7/15   00:00:00
5.a4 bxa4 6.g4 hxg4 7.hxg4
  +-  (3.58)   Tiefe: 7/15   00:00:00
5.a4 bxa4 6.g4 hxg4 7.hxg4
  +-  (3.58)   Tiefe: 7/15   00:00:00
5.a4 bxa4 6.g4 hxg4 7.hxg4
  +-  (3.58)   Tiefe: 7/15   00:00:00
5.a4 bxa4 6.g4 hxg4 7.hxg4
  +-  (3.58)   Tiefe: 7/15   00:00:00
5.a4 bxa4 6.g4 hxg4 7.hxg4
  +-  (3.58)   Tiefe: 7/15   00:00:00
5.a4 bxa4 6.g4 hxg4 7.hxg4
  +-  (3.58)   Tiefe: 7/15   00:00:00  19kN
5.a4 bxa4 6.g4 hxg4 7.hxg4
  +-  (3.58)   Tiefe: 7/15   00:00:00  19kN
5.a4 bxa4 6.g4 hxg4 7.hxg4
  +-  (3.58)   Tiefe: 7/15   00:00:00  19kN
5.a4 bxa4 6.g4 hxg4 7.hxg4
  +-  (3.58)   Tiefe: 7/15   00:00:00  19kN
5.a4 bxa4 6.g4 hxg4 7.hxg4
  +-  (3.58)   Tiefe: 7/15   00:00:00  19kN
5.a4 bxa4 6.g4 hxg4 7.hxg4
  +-  (3.58)   Tiefe: 7/15   00:00:00  19kN
5.a4 bxa4 6.g4 h4 7.c4 Ke5 8.g5 Kf5 9.c5 Kxg5
  +-  (3.54)   Tiefe: 8/16   00:00:00  39kN
5.a4 bxa4
  +-  (3.23)   Tiefe: 9/17   00:00:00  61kN
5.a4 bxa4 6.g4 hxg4 7.hxg4 Kf6
  +-  (2.96)   Tiefe: 9/21   00:00:00  109kN
5.a4 bxa4
  +-  (2.70)   Tiefe: 10/22   00:00:01  182kN
5.a4 bxa4 6.c4 Kf6 7.c5 a3 8.bxa3 f2 9.Kxf2 Ke5
  +-  (2.59)   Tiefe: 10/24   00:00:02  268kN
5.a4 bxa4
  +-  (2.84)   Tiefe: 11/24   00:00:04  491kN
5.a4 bxa4 6.c4 Kf6 7.c5 Ke6 8.g4 hxg4 9.hxg4 Kd5 10.g5 Kxc5 11.g6
  +-  (3.36)   Tiefe: 11/26   00:00:05  586kN
5.a4 bxa4 6.c4 Kf6 7.c5 Kf5 8.g4+ hxg4 9.c6 Ke6 10.hxg4 Kd6
  +-  (3.44)   Tiefe: 12/27   00:00:10  1299kN, tb=14
5.b3 Ke5 6.c4 bxc4 7.bxc4 f2 8.Kxf2 Kd4 9.g4 Kd3 10.Ke1 hxg4 11.h4 Kxc4
  +-  (3.56)   Tiefe: 12/27   00:00:25  3104kN, tb=101
5.b3 Ke5
  +-  (3.81)   Tiefe: 13/29   00:00:32  3952kN, tb=113
5.b3 Ke5 6.a4 bxa4 7.bxa4 Ke6 8.c4 Kf6 9.c5 Ke5 10.g4 hxg4 11.hxg4
  +-  (4.57)   Tiefe: 13/29   00:00:35  4308kN, tb=119
5.b3 Ke5 6.a4 bxa4 7.bxa4 Ke6 8.c4 Kf6 9.c5 Ke5 10.g4 hxg4 11.hxg4 Kd5 12.g5
Kxc5
  +-  (4.57)   Tiefe: 14/31   00:00:56  6852kN, tb=391
5.b3 Ke5
  +-  (4.32)   Tiefe: 15/33   00:01:44  11815kN, tb=1317
5.b3 Ke5 6.c4 f2 7.Kxf2 bxc4 8.bxc4 Kd4 9.g4 hxg4 10.hxg4 Kd3 11.c5 Kd2 12.c6
e3+ 13.Kf3 e2 14.c7 e1D 15.c8D
  ±  (1.13)   Tiefe: 15/37   00:04:04  25692kN, tb=1980
5.a4 bxa4
  +-  (4.82)   Tiefe: 15/37   00:05:25  33904kN, tb=2392
5.a4 bxa4
  +-  (4.82)   Tiefe: 15/37   00:05:40  35586kN, tb=2572



only a4 wins, b3 is only a draw!

greetings

Joachim



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