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Subject: Re: What Makes a Chess Engine Better Vs Humans?

Author: Ed Schröder

Date: 23:22:21 09/05/98

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>I have always been interested in this question of intransitivity
>between humans and chess programs.   A lot of people claim, almost
>always based on some anecdotal evidence, that various programs
>are much better or weaker  against humans or other programs and
>that huge intrasitivities exist.   My own thinking is that this
>is minor, but I know I'll get a lot of disagreement here.

>I can't tell you how many times I have heard this type of
>conversation:  "I played a game with program
>X and got crushed, then I played a game with program Y and
>won easily.  But when I played the two programs together,
>program Y demolished program X."   From a measly 3 games
>can you come to the conclusion that program X is not very
>strong against other programs but is "crushing" against
>humans?

>But once you form a conclusion, then you start noticing the
>events that reinforce your conlusion and you minimize the
>events that do not.  Usually, the opinion propogates to other
>people if it gets stated enough times.

>Here are the ones I have heard but have serious doubts whether
>they are true, or at least crystal clear:

>  1. Novag machines a much better against people but no good
>     against other programs.

>  2. Genius is not very good against people but crushes other
>     computers.

>  3. Genius is particularly good aginst people, but just so-so
>     against other programs (yes, I've heard both cases stated
>     as facts.)

>  4. Deep Blue will crush any computer but is not much better
>     that micro programs against humans.

>  5. Any kind of forward prunning or selectivity will help a
>     lot against humans but is not so good against computers.

>  6. Same as 5 but reversed.


Hi Don,

That's why I asked for the statistics of chess programs playing humans so
we can compare and discuss. I have given mine. On my home page I have
a database with the following items:

- Unique database of the most famous Man vs Machine events.
- AEGON 1991-1997 complete!
- Harvard Cup 1989-1995
- Special matches like Deep Blue-Kasparov, Rebel-Yusupov etc.
- Total 1900 (!) games

The direct download address is: http://www.rebel.nl/mvsm.zip

- Ed -


>- Don



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