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Subject: Re: RE-INSTATE SEAN evans

Author: mick adams

Date: 11:45:45 09/06/98

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On September 05, 1998 at 22:50:44, Larry S. Tamarkin wrote:

>Thank you for your well thought out reply; it certainly satisfies the majority
>of what I think is important in the free expression of ideas, except for one
>small (really big), item. That is that the offending party has to feel
>apologetic toward those whose post he or she is questioning.  Obviously the most
>unlikely of people to apologize or feel that they have done wrong, are also the
>most likely to be banned! - Thats why I feel it is more important for the
>moderaters and those who are attacked to be 'Big' about those who have slung at
>them.  After all, they are the most respected people by all, and also the
>majority usaully come to the 'front' in order to refute mistaken post and views.
>
>My idea of 'limited suspension' has this one importent advantage - it protects
>to some extent, from the continueing never-ending haranging from misguided
>individual(s), but it also protects the misguided individual's from themselves
>to some degree - they can wait out their suspensions, go nuts again it is true,
>but then be suspended for longer.
>
>Eventually they would have to learn from their past mistaken post, change their
>lanquange, and if still having critizisms to sling, have to at least learn to
>quote accurately and post civily to aviod suspension(s) in the future.  The
other benifit of course, is it gives them less to cry about in other forums,
>such as rec.games.chess.computer or rec.games.chess.politics
>
>Best wishes to all,
>
>Lawrence Tamarkin
>the inkompetent chess software addict!
>

Sean's voice in this forum,is like a sweet breath of air,if i were of the female
sex,i feel certain to be entertained by his malarkys.                Micky.
>On September 05, 1998 at 19:25:11, Roberto Waldteufel wrote:
>
>>
>>On September 05, 1998 at 16:55:30, Don Dailey wrote:
>>
>>>On September 04, 1998 at 15:27:13, Larry S. Tamarkin wrote:
>>>
>>>>I also don't believe in the permenant banning of any individual - Its too
>>>>tolatarian! It is in the nature of free speech/expression, that some will make
>>>>outragous and incorrect claims and assumtions about others.  Anyone with common
>>>>sence can interpert the real truth on many diverse matters.  Also people who
>>>>have been attacked, usually have no problem(s) defending themselves, or having
>>>>other's come to their defence.
>>>>
>>>>Perhaps one logical thing that could be done is to establish a time limit for
>>>>the banning of any individual, always with an expiration time.
>>>>
>>>>Suggestion, 1 month first offense, 3 months 2nd offense, 1 year 3rd offense.
>>>>True, the moderators would have to do a lot more work, keeping taps on what &
>>>>who, and also notifying the offending party(s) why they were being temporarily
>>>>banned, quoting offending post where necessary.  But I think what we gain here
>>>>is a forum where contridictory views can be tollorated and also tempored to some
>>>>degree.
>>>>
>>>>Lawrence S. Tamarkin
>>>>mrslug - the inkompetent chess software addict!
>>>
>>>
>>>Hi Larry,
>>>
>>>Your point of view on this is certainly worth consideration.  I
>>>believe it is, at least in part, a matter of moderator style.  A
>>>different set of moderators could have chosen to handle matters in
>>>an entirely different way and still be entirely legitimate.  I do
>>>not think any of us would make the claim that our approach to
>>>moderation is the best or only right way to do it.  On the other
>>>hand we hope that our decisions have worked in the best interests
>>>of the group and I feel satisfied that so far they have been.
>>>
>>>You mentioned that you do not believe in the permanent banning of any
>>>individual.  This is gratifying for us to hear since we feel the same
>>>way about this point.  Our implementation of this principle is different
>>>however from the implementation you propose.   This has been posted a
>>>couple of times at least in the past, but I would like to briefly review
>>>the approach we have chosen on this and then I'll explain why I feel
>>>that it might be slightly better than what you propose:
>>>
>>>ANY previously banned member can approach us freely and express his
>>>desire to come back to the group.  He has only to convince us of
>>>two things.
>>>
>>> 1)  He actually feels some regret for previous bad behavior.
>>>
>>> 2)  We think it is very likely he will change this if given
>>>     the opportunity.
>>>
>>>Really, the two go together and the first point is probably a
>>>subset of the second point.
>>>
>>>We have almost no rules on this group and I think this is a good
>>>thing.  All we ask is that we each treat each other with dignity,
>>>respect and consideration.   It is rarely the case that determining
>>>whether this principle has been violated is ambiguous.  The
>>>tough part is determining how serious the infraction was!
>>>
>>>I appreciate your feedback on this issue and it is good to hear
>>>about how the membership feels on these things.   I hope you do
>>>not feel that we are being totalitarian because we do not have
>>>an automated system of bringing back members on a regularly
>>>scheduled basis.  We would prefer to deal individually with each
>>>case so that we can be more flexible on this.  With our system
>>>a member could concievably come back immediately without having
>>>to wait some pre-determined time interval.   On the other hand,
>>>someone who is sure to cause much trouble may never get to come
>>>back.  To the extent that we can make it so, we want it to be up
>>>to the individual instead of us.  I know this is not completely
>>>possible since a judgement will always be involved but if anyone
>>>really wants back and is willing to play nice, I think they will
>>>be able to convince us of this and will get to come back.
>>>
>>>Do you think this approach is unreasonable?
>>>
>>>- Don
>>
>>I think your approach is very reasonable, and I agree that nobody should be
>>banned on an irrevocable basis, but in the specific case of Mr Evans I doubt
>>whether he is willing and able to behave himself if allowed back, based on what
>>I hear of his present activity in that other place.....
>>
>>Best wishes,
>>Roberto



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