Author: Laurence Chen
Date: 19:36:58 10/20/02
Go up one level in this thread
On October 20, 2002 at 19:34:54, Bob Durrett wrote:
>On October 20, 2002 at 19:23:38, Mark Young wrote:
>
>>On October 20, 2002 at 19:12:39, Bob Durrett wrote:
>>
>>>On October 20, 2002 at 18:33:25, José Carlos wrote:
>>>
>>>>On October 20, 2002 at 18:16:38, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On October 20, 2002 at 17:55:55, Bob Durrett wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Why Fritz and Junior not among Top computers at ICC?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I just looked at "best computers" at the Internet Chess Club [ICC] and noted
>>>>>>that the top blitz programs are NOT Fritz and Junior.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>{{Note: at ICC, "best" is a command.}}
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Why is that? Maybe Kramnik was playing against the wrong engine?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Bob D.
>>>>>
>>>>>ICC rating is a joke.
>>>>>
>>>>>People can maximize their rating by having a list of
>>>>>players that they do not to play.
>>>>>
>>>>>I think that it is better to ignore that rating because
>>>>>it has no meaning.
>>>>>
>>>>>Rating should be based on tournament when players have
>>>>>no right not to play against special opponents.
>>>>>
>>>>>Players who choose not to play against special
>>>>>opponents should get no rating.
>>>>>
>>>>>Another point is that the time control for blitz is not
>>>>>constant time control and it can be 3 0 or 12 2.
>>>>>
>>>>>I think that all games should be played at
>>>>>the same time control to have rating with meaning.
>>>>
>>>> ICC rating is not totally meaningless. It depends on what you want to know. I
>>>>mean, if I usually play the same time controls and a variety of opponents, I can
>>>>test my program with two different books and see which one works better. In that
>>>>case, ICC rating is useful _to me_.
>>>> But I agree is doesn't always show which player is stronger because of the
>>>>reasons you mentioned.
>>>>
>>>> José C.
>>>
>>>OK, so some manipulation is possible. People who used Fritz or Junior could do
>>>the same thing!
>>>
>>>What strikes me is that Fritz and Junior seem to be missing entirely!
>>>
>>>Do you suppose somebody has talked the ICC management into boycotting Fritz and
>>>Junior?
>>>
>>>Joke or not, I think it's very strange that Fritz and Junior cannot compete in
>>>that arena. They could play by the same rules as the others, too!
>>
>>
>>If you think that Ruffian, Yace, and Crafty are stronger then Deep Fritz and
>>Deep Junior, I think you should stick with them. But don't ever play them
>>against Deep Fritz yourself or your world will come crashing down.
>
>You suggest a computer versus computer match to see which program is best
>against humans???????
>
>Truly, I would lose to all of them! : )
>
>But, to be serious, can you say why you feel that way? Are you basing this
>solely on results of computer vs computer tournament results?
>
>Also, what about my point that the same rules apply to Fritz and Junior at ICC
>as apply to the three you mentioned? [Assuming that Fritz/Junior owners are
>allowed to compete.] Do people owning Fritz and Junior CHOSE not to compete,
>and if so why would that be true?
>
>It is not at all clear to me that Fritz and Junior are the best programs against
>humans. I don't know about the others, since I'm not strong enough to test them
>anyway. But don't discount those programs which are not currently in the
>limelight. One of them may, indeed, be the best in the world versus humans.
>
>Don't you agree, at least a little bit? Please?
>
>Bob D.
>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Bob D.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>It is better if you look at the ssdf rating list.
>>>
>>>I doubt that the SSDF ratings have anything at all to do with the rating of the
>>>computers against humans. But the ICC computers ARE playing against humans.
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Uri
Your thinking has no merit. It is like saying that the fastest 100 meter dash
would have no problem beaten a marathon runner in a 50 mile race. Or a 100
meter dash champion would have no problem beating a 2 mile race dash champion.
Just because an engine has a high rating in ICC in blitz or bullet does not
necessary mean that it will perform well in regular slow tournament times, 40
moves/2 hours.
Not to mention also that ICC is a non-controlled environment, there are users or
operators who will refuse to play against all opponents, they will do this to
preserve they unrealistic rating. If one only plays against higher rated
opponents, then its rating will only go up.
Remember this: "The race does not go to the swiftest, nor the match to the
strongest."
Laurence
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.