Author: Uri Blass
Date: 07:33:05 10/25/02
Go up one level in this thread
On October 25, 2002 at 10:23:59, Andreas Guettinger wrote: >On October 25, 2002 at 08:59:55, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On October 25, 2002 at 08:43:12, Andreas Guettinger wrote: >> >>>On October 25, 2002 at 08:25:48, Uri Blass wrote: >>> >>>>On October 25, 2002 at 08:04:37, Andreas Guettinger wrote: >>>> >>>>>On October 25, 2002 at 07:49:17, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On October 25, 2002 at 07:43:52, Andreas Guettinger wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On October 25, 2002 at 07:12:38, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On October 25, 2002 at 06:51:45, Sune Fischer wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On October 25, 2002 at 06:29:07, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>>>>>>>No >>>>>>>>>>I did not think only about crafty. >>>>>>>>>>There were other cases when programmers released versions with no improvement or >>>>>>>>>>at least it is not clear if there was an improvement: >>>>>>>>>>Gandalf,Nimzo,Mchess,Genius >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Uri >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Based on eng-eng matches I guess. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>-S. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I think that most people care only about them. >>>>>>>>I do not care about games against humans because it is clearly only a question >>>>>>>>of time until computers beat humans at all time controls. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>comp-comp is the interesting struggle and being better in comp-comp can also >>>>>>>>help to get better results against humans. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Computer also can play for the same ideas that humans play so being better at >>>>>>>>beating them means in most cases also being better against humans. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>There are programs that can play for king attack and I do not think that you >>>>>>>>need humans to see the problems of your program against king attack if you have >>>>>>>>these problems. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>You can let your program play against sjeng. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Uri >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I disagree. Better performance in eng-eng matches is no guarantee that a >>>>>>>programm performs better in matches against humans. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>And it leads the whole computer chess development into the false direction, >>>>>>>with no new concepts. >>>>>> >>>>>>I see no reason why not. >>>>>>New concepts can be productive to beat chess programs. >>>>>> >>>>>>Uri >>>>> >>>>>Look at the Kramnik-Fritz match games 2 and 3. In tactical positions, with lots >>>>>of pieces and queens, chess engines are not bad today (and this is indeed an >>>>>achievement of eng-eng matches). But in the other positions, the engines have >>>>>not a clue, are chanceless, and this will not improve from eng-eng matches, >>>>>because all the engines have this flaw. >>>> >>>>I do not think that all of them. >>>>There are engines that do not play a3 in game 3. >>>> >>>>Other engines have different holes in their knowledge so I do not think that >>>>Fritz has less knowledge than them. >>>> >>>>Uri >>> >>>I do. Fritz = fast, not much knowledge. Hiarcs8 = slooow, a lot of knowledge. >>> >>>Unfortunately, I don't own Fritz, so I can not prove that. But I think it's >>>obvious, and nothing anybody will say will change my mind. :) >>> >>>Andreas >> >> >>My private version of movei is a slow searcher relative to Fritz and it is at >>similiar speed to hiarcs(the public free version is also a slow searcher but >>about 1.5 times faster in nodes per seconds than my private version). >> >>I can tell you that >>Movei of today has no knowledge about king safety or about passed pawns and >>weak pawns but if you use your logic you are not going to believe me because you >>are going to say that movei is slower than Fritz so it must have a lot of >>knowledge. >> >>Uri > >Well, but Hiarcs8 plays as good chess as Fritz (source ICC-rating), and is a >slow searcher compared to Fritz. Can you say that about Movei? > >:-) > >Andreas 1)I believe that Hiarcs8 is sligthly weaker than Fritz(source ssdf rating that are based on 120/40 games) 2)playing as good as Fritz proves nothing because the program may have the same knowledge in evaluation but better search rules. Uri
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.