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Subject: Re: Just comparing lists...

Author: José Carlos

Date: 08:31:27 10/25/02

Go up one level in this thread


On October 25, 2002 at 08:43:12, Andreas Guettinger wrote:

>On October 25, 2002 at 08:25:48, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On October 25, 2002 at 08:04:37, Andreas Guettinger wrote:
>>
>>>On October 25, 2002 at 07:49:17, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>
>>>>On October 25, 2002 at 07:43:52, Andreas Guettinger wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On October 25, 2002 at 07:12:38, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On October 25, 2002 at 06:51:45, Sune Fischer wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On October 25, 2002 at 06:29:07, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>>>>No
>>>>>>>>I did not think only about crafty.
>>>>>>>>There were other cases when programmers released versions with no improvement or
>>>>>>>>at least it is not clear if there was an improvement:
>>>>>>>>Gandalf,Nimzo,Mchess,Genius
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Uri
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Based on eng-eng matches I guess.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>-S.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I think that most people care only about them.
>>>>>>I do not care about games against humans because it is clearly only a question
>>>>>>of time until computers beat humans at all time controls.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>comp-comp is the interesting struggle and being better in comp-comp can also
>>>>>>help to get better results against humans.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Computer also can play for the same ideas that humans play so being better at
>>>>>>beating them means in most cases also being better against humans.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>There are programs that can play for king attack and I do not think that you
>>>>>>need humans to see the problems of your program against king attack if you have
>>>>>>these problems.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You can let your program play against sjeng.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Uri
>>>>>
>>>>>I disagree. Better performance in eng-eng matches is no guarantee that a
>>>>>programm performs better in matches against humans.
>>>>>
>>>>>And it leads the whole computer chess development into the false direction,
>>>>>with no new concepts.
>>>>
>>>>I see no reason why not.
>>>>New concepts can be productive to beat chess programs.
>>>>
>>>>Uri
>>>
>>>Look at the Kramnik-Fritz match games 2 and 3. In tactical positions, with lots
>>>of pieces and queens, chess engines are not bad today (and this is indeed an
>>>achievement of eng-eng matches). But in the other positions, the engines have
>>>not a clue, are chanceless, and this will not improve from eng-eng matches,
>>>because all the engines have this flaw.
>>
>>I do not think that all of them.
>>There are engines that do not play a3 in game 3.
>>
>>Other engines have different holes in their knowledge so I do not think that
>>Fritz has less knowledge than them.
>>
>>Uri
>
>I do. Fritz = fast, not much knowledge. Hiarcs8 = slooow, a lot of knowledge.
>
>Unfortunately, I don't own Fritz, so I can not prove that. But I think it's
>obvious, and nothing anybody will say will change my mind. :)
>
>Andreas

  I can change my program's output to show any nps I want. Let's say I release a
version where I do "print (nps/100)" and another version where I "print (nps)".
They are exactly equal in any other sense.
  People like you would say the slow one has more knowledge which compensates
the speed, right? ;)

  José C.



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