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Subject: Re: Junior5

Author: Dirk Frickenschmidt

Date: 00:14:22 09/09/98

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On September 08, 1998 at 16:07:31, David Eppstein wrote:

Hi David,


you wrote:
>While I don't disagree with your judgement in this game, I have some concern
>with your methodology:
>
>On September 08, 1998 at 14:02:44, Dirk Frickenschmidt wrote:
>>In the game below Rebel9 played it's Slav
>>defence very well, finally reaching an endgame with one pawn up. I already was
>>convinced that Junior would suffer its first loss against Rebel.
>...
>>I judged the game as win for Junior
>>after move 65; if anyone disagrees it will probably be easy to demonstrate the
>>win: black cannot prevent to lose one remaining pawn after the other and then
>>ist mated with king+rook against king.
>
>What is the difference between these two situations?
>In one, you are convinced that Junior will lose, so you keep playing.
>In the other, you are convinced that Junior will win, so you end the game.

The difference between these two situations is easily explainded:

a) around move 40 Rebel9 was one pawn up, and I could not recognize much
compensation for white then. This does not necessarily mean a black win, but
black's chances for a win would be rising for example after rook exchanges.

b) If you look at the position in move 54, the situation has changed completely:
one pair of rooks is exchanged, while white has managed to centralize its king
in support of a strong passed pawn on row 6, while black's pawns are too slow
and weak to play any decisive role and the black king has problems helping,
unable to leave the h-file.

c) In move 65 we finally have technical endgame win which modern top programs
win with white without problems. As I have tested a lot I am just sure about
this and don't want to waste time with something which - at least to me - seems
to be clear beyond doubt.

>In what circumstances do you declare a game over?
>Shouldn't you wait until the programs themselves checkmate or resign?
>Otherwise you leave yourself open to questions of partiality.

I would not adjudicate a game if I had *any* doubts about the outcome...

Of course anyone could try to prove that I am wrong in the above case, but if
you ask other experienced testers I guess you would get the same answer
concerning the evaluation of this position.


So I hope my comments and decisions do not seem too unappropriate to you or
others...


Kind regards
from Dirk



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