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Subject: Re: Ply 'n+1' searches lesser nodes than 'n'

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 10:14:48 10/28/02

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On October 28, 2002 at 12:45:11, Christophe Theron wrote:

>On October 28, 2002 at 05:28:39, José Carlos wrote:
>
>>On October 28, 2002 at 05:02:13, Nagendra Singh Tomar wrote:
>>
>>>On October 28, 2002 at 04:52:26, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>
>>>>On October 28, 2002 at 04:24:24, Nagendra Singh Tomar wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On October 28, 2002 at 02:45:33, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On October 28, 2002 at 02:00:06, Nagendra Singh Tomar wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On October 28, 2002 at 01:48:02, Ricardo Gibert wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On October 28, 2002 at 01:17:41, Nagendra Singh Tomar wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>What all reasons can you think of for a ply 'n+1' searching lesser nodes than
>>>>>>>>>ply 'n' search.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>regds
>>>>>>>>>tomar
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>The most obvious is a ply n search had really bad move ordering that gets much
>>>>>>>>improved for ply n+1 thanks to the hash moves saved in the hash table.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>correct.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>One more reason can ne that 'n' was just small enough to deny null-move.
>>>>>>>null-move in 'n+1' ply search saved a lot of nodes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I use null move from the first ply so there is not n that is small enough to
>>>>>>deny null move.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The only case when I do not start by checking null move is when the remaining
>>>>>>depth is 0 or in some other special cases when I suspect a zugzwang.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Uri
>>>>>
>>>>>But the idea behind null move is to try first with a lesser depth search and see
>>>>>if it fails high ..
>>>>>if you start null move search from first ply .. what is the "lesser depth" you
>>>>>are going to try for ply 1 and even 2
>>>>>
>>>>>regds
>>>>>tomar
>>>>
>>>>depth 0 is less than 1 or 2.
>>>>
>>>>Uri
>>>
>>>Do you really believe depth 0's result so much as to trust it for a fail high.
>>>
>>>tomar
>>
>>  Sure. If null move reduction (R) = 2, which means you substract 3 to nominal
>>depth and search for the same side, while your nominal depth is <= 3 null move
>>will go directly to QSearch (depth 0).
>>
>>  José C.
>
>
>
>You can't use that in the first iterations because QSearch is not guaranteed to
>return a best move at all. It returns a move only if there exist a non-losing
>capture.
>
>If the first iterations, null move is not doing anything because of this.
>
>
>
>    Christophe


It's still ok.  Q-search returns a "stand-pat score" if there is no capture.
That
still makes the search work just fine...



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