Author: Enrique Irazoqui
Date: 12:53:23 09/09/98
Go up one level in this thread
On September 09, 1998 at 13:52:47, Moritz Berger wrote: >On September 09, 1998 at 12:48:21, Ed Schröder wrote: > >>>I do have some qustions to Ed Schroeder: > >>>Is Rebel 10 stil compatoble to the Chess 232? >> >>No. > >OK, why don't we have a poll here on CCC about how many people are affected by >this decision? My Chess232 board is not there to gather dust on my desk, so I >clearly don't like this decision. > >Let's use this forum to take a stand and vote in cyberspace instead with our >purse - less painful for Ed if his decision turns out to be controversial and >potentially detrimental to his Rebel sales. > >>>Does Rebel 10 still support the Autoplayer 232? >> >>No. > >Wow, that's really bad news! After ChessBase will have again autoplayer >compatibility with their new products, Ed choses to make the same MISTAKE like >ChessBase did with Fritz 5 (for which he heavily criticized them!). > >One of the reasons Rebel was kind of acceptable as a DOS program was the fact >that it at least supported the autoplayer. Now that this will be deliberately >removed, there's one excuse less for buying a non-Windows dinosaur. > >Rebel clearly addresses expert players and computer chess enthusiasts. While the >former feel sorry for the lack of chess board support, the latter audience >depends to a high degree on the ability to set up autoplayer machines for >testing purposes. If testing becomes impossible this way, nobody will be able to >verify the (impressive, in my opinion) strength of Rebel vs. other programs. > >The one Anand match will not be good enough to claim significant playing >strength improvements (after all, Rebel 9 might have scored as well as Rebel 10 >did). Only independent testing (read: also auto232 games to produce a >significant number of games) qualifies as an indicator of competitive >improvements. Do I have to remind everybody on the fatal debate that emerged >after Fritz 5 was released without autoplayer and of the silly claims that it >really didn't play well? The true motivation of these claims would have been >even clearer if everybody (!) would have been able to just let Fritz fight it >out for itself on John Doe's machines at home vs. other programs. This >verification was not possible and the smear campaign at least irritated some >people to a degree that they were not sure if playing strength wasn't a reason >*NOT* to buy Fritz (there were several posts about this on r.g.c.c.). Oh yes, >and Fritz also defeated Grandmasters en masse at faster time controls, this >didn't stop the bad-mouthing about its lacking chess skills. > >Already I see it coming: People will speculate about the reasons why Rebel isn't >available for auto232 matches with other programs any longer. Combined with the >fact that it doesn't participate in world micro championships, it almost looks >like if it wasn't strong enough to compete. > >From my experience with an auto232 compatible beta version, I can assure you >that REBEL 10 plays well enough to best even the strongest programs around! But >you want it to compete on your PC, right? Without autoplayer support, this is >not feasible, sorry. > >Remember, customers do have a choice: > >Autoplayer support: Genius, Hiarcs, Fritz+Junior+Nimzo engines, Shredder, >M-Chess, Crafty (in the works), Rebel 9 (!), you-name-it ... > >No auto232 support: Rebel 10 > >Where's the upgrade incentive if Rebel 10 is to be still a DOS program, but >without a much cherished and often used feature of all previous releases? > >What's the economical reasoning behind investing extra work to remove a killer >sales feature for loyal customers? Just to take revenge on the SSDF sounds >silly... Probably they will not test Rebel without autoplayer, but if they do >nothing will be accomplished by this action but to annoy everybody involved. > >I feel very sad because I was already looking forward to do testing with Rebel >10 on the autoplayer vs. assorted opponents. > >No new features in Rebel 10 will be good enough to make up for this diminishment >of the joy I take in testing computer programs. - As far as I am concerned, I >will never ever do manual testing against other programs on tournament level >(where Rebel excels!), if only for the reason that I don't have that much time >to throw away. > > >Does anybody actually like the political decision to remove auto232 support? >Please speak up, maybe we can stop this nonsense! (sorry for the strong words, >but I simply don't get it). > > >Moritz I couldn't agree more with you. I find it is a terrible mistake to remove auto232 from Rebel. Moritz: you have all my sympathies, pessimistic kind of. Enrique
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