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Subject: Re: Turing Test is Fatally Flawed

Author: Peter Berger

Date: 17:15:52 11/02/02

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On November 02, 2002 at 20:04:07, Bob Durrett wrote:

>On November 02, 2002 at 19:47:10, Peter Berger wrote:
>
>>On November 02, 2002 at 18:12:26, Bob Durrett wrote:
>>>>>: )  : )  : )  : )  : )  : )  : )  : )  : )  : )  : )  : )
>>>>>
>>>>>Bob D.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>That's a Turing Test and there is nothing funny about it IMHO. I don't know how
>>>>good and professional the "Cheater Cops" at ICC do their job but if you really
>>>>managed to let everybody believe that your chessengine is a human player of
>>>>course this would mean that your engine really plays human-like IMHO.
>>>>
>>>>Peter
>>>
>>>I know the Turing Test is Sacred among AI people.  It is absolutely taboo to say
>>>anything bad about it.  However, it is fatally flawed!  It falsely assumes that
>>>the human mind is the ultimate thinking machine.  Typical of the human ego to
>>>think that!
>>
>>How has that anything to do with what I posted?
>
>Perhaps I misunderstood you.  I thought you said [paraphrased]: "There is
>nothing funny about the Turing Test IMHO."
>
>[Are we communicating???]

No, we are not. You gave a very good, although unethical experiment to test your
own hypothesis, namely to emulate a human player with a chessprogram on ICC - if
ICC and other players payed attention to this account, this would be a good and
valid experiment to test if computers are able to play human-like IMHO.

>
>>
>>I don't think there is any chessprogram that can really emulate a strong human
>>chessplayer so that it will fool a reasonable amount of humans at expert level,
>>that's it. That's all I posted , that's all I wanted to discuss.
>
>OK.  But there's not much to discuss about that with me, since I agree with you
>100%.  Today's chess engines are not yet stronger than the top human GM.  We
>agree.  Maybe others would have different ideas about this than ours.
>
>Bob D.

No Rolf, I didn't say that at all. I have posted zilch about playing strength
and in fact I don't even have a clear opinion about this topic at all myself.

IMHO the much more interesting experiment would be to emulate a 1800 human
player in fact - here playing strength is a no-issue but the principal problems
remain the same.
>
>>
>>>
>>>As an aside:  Would you say that a lightning bolt did not exist if no one saw or
>>>heard it?
>>
>>As I don't even know what a lightning bolt is, that is beyond my abilities.
>
>It's an electrical discharge involving the motion of an extremely large number
>of electrons between two clouds or between a cloud and the Earth's surface.
>
>[You knew that.]

I didn't - my English is not that good. But I understand it now.

Peter



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