Author: andrew tanner
Date: 19:25:26 11/02/02
Go up one level in this thread
On November 02, 2002 at 00:06:08, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On November 01, 2002 at 22:52:14, Bob Durrett wrote: > >>On October 31, 2002 at 20:01:10, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On October 31, 2002 at 17:00:19, Bob Durrett wrote: >>> >>>> >>>>Solving the general problem of emulating the chess play of "humanity" might be a >>>>prohibitively difficult task. >>>> >>> >>>This has been the "holy grail" of AI since its early days. But the problem is, >>>in 25 words or less "we have no idea how a person does what he does when playing >>>chess (or anything else for that matter), which makes it _impossible_ to emulate >>>what we don't understand." >> >>Well, Bob H., emulating the chess play of a human is not exactly what the AI >>people want to do, is it. They wish to make a carbon copy of a human in all >>it's gory details. >> >>Many orders of magnitude different, I would say. >> >>Bob D. > >They really want to emulate human thought processes related to chess, >at least for the computer chess/AI purists. But until we know how the >human does what he does, emulation is futile, to paraphrase the borg. > Wouldn't it be possible to emulate human thought by having the program learn how to play chess from scratch, just as people do? I just happened upon this neat little program written in 1993 that seems to do just that. It's very weak, but it's a beginning. http://satirist.org/learn-game/systems/sal.html >>>>Perhaps a lesser accomplishment would be "good enough." For example, one could >>>>select a dozen or more specific humans and then emulate them individually. If >>>>the group of humans selected for emulation were chosen wisely, maybe they would >>>>represent [or "cover"] the entire population reasonably well. The larger the >>>>group, the better they could represent the entire population of human >>>>chessplayers. >>>> >>>>Suppose someone with a 2800 rating were selected and called opponent #1. >>>>Then someone with a 2700 rating might be selected and called opponent #2. >>>>This could be continued until the rating was so low that there would be no need >>>>for more. >>>> >>>>#1 = 2800, #2 = 2700, #3 = 2600, #4 = 2500, etc. >>>> >>>>The next step might be to expand the list by having several individuals at each >>>>level but with different playing styles. >>>> >>>>There should be quite a few distinct emulated humans at the amateur levels, >>>>since that's where most of the people using the program would be. >>>> >>>>The intent maybe should be to emulate these people primarily in the middlegame >>>>and maybe endgame. The opening repertoires of the individuals might also be >>>>copied but that might not be such a good idea unless the repertoires were large. >>>> A typical amateur might not have a complete opening repertoire at all. In this >>>>case, one might be provided for him. >>>> >>>>To select a specific individual to be emulated, it would be necessary to have a >>>>fairly large collection of his/her games played at the desired performance >>>>level. Such a collection might be hard to find for amateurs. >>>> >>>>How could the chess play of a specific individual be emulated without such a >>>>collection of games? Maybe general well-known traits of chessplayers at the >>>>level being considered could be used to synthesize an emulation in that case. >>>> >>>>The emulations could then be used in a chess-playing program designed to serve >>>>as a training tool. People would train against the emulated individuals at >>>>their level in preparation for future contests with humans. >>>> >>>>Clearly, this would be inferior to a full-scale emulation of all of the >>>>chessplayers in the World. For example, if the number of individuals emulated >>>>were too small, one might "learn" the individual traits of the specific >>>>individual emulated. After that, playing against that specific emulated >>>>individual might become boring. >>>> >>>>Care would be required to assure that the games would have some variability. >>>>This could be done in the opening, especially. Maybe a random number generator >>>>would be used to randomly select the openings. This is surely done by most or >>>>all programs using an opening book anyway. >>>> >>>>Bob D.
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