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Subject: Re: Survey proposal: Importance of Auto232 compatibility

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 19:19:36 09/10/98

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On September 10, 1998 at 21:14:21, Keith Ian Price wrote:

>On September 10, 1998 at 13:11:24, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On September 09, 1998 at 21:26:18, Keith Ian Price wrote:
>>
>>>I don't buy that as a valid excuse for not adapting a new standard. You could
>>>keep the already written Auto232 capacity for backward compatiblity, while
>>>adding the new features to get people (like me) to upgrade. I will buy any chess
>>>engine so long as it is as strong as Rebel Decade, and has these features of
>>>ICC/FICS compatiblity, e-mail compatibility, and network compatibility. Even
>>>though I said that I would not pay $100 for Crafty, I would if it had a UI and
>>>these features. Computer chess strength is secondary to me. Chess strength can't
>>>be determined by how a program plays against other programs, only strength in
>>>computer chess. Features like this are what I would like. Chess System Tal is
>>>much more fun to play than any of the supposedly stronger programs, but if the
>>>Windows version has only a Windows interface and a stronger engine, I won't be
>>>buying it, since it won't be any more fun for me to use than the one I have
>>>already. I am probably in the minority with this view, but there it is...
>>>
>>>kp
>>
>>
>>
>>I agree totally.  the Auto232 standard is gross.  Completely gross.  There are
>>many better ways to accomplish this task.  First problem is that the message
>>format is rediculous, with the original auto232 interface not supporting *real*
>>chess since it didn't allow underpromotion.  Then there were the timing issues
>>that resulted in hangs when a program moved too quickly.  Cryptic move format
>>requiring a tab here, no tab there, etc...
>
>The hangs are what I hate most in the current standard. I see that you agreed
>totally with how I think about Auto232, without me stating it this time. Did you
>remember my previous posts on the subject, or did you merely read my mind?
>



no mind reading.  You have no idea how much time I spent to get the bare auto232
(dos) stuff to work.  it works on machine a, fails on a faster machine, works in
normal games, but not with pondering, works without a book, works with a book,
depending on the speed of the disk, works without tablebases, but not with,
because crafty can read and move too fast and hangs auto232.

IE, anything with a timing dependency is rediculous in this day and time.
Code can be written without such problems...



>>None of it made any sense from a software engineering point of view.  I would
>>be more than happy to sit down with a group and work out a standard
>>communication interface that is easy to implement, easy to parse, and easy to
>>understand how it is supposed to work.
>>
>>We ought to be able to also provide some basic software that will let this work
>>on both unix and windows boxes (IE I can do the unix part myself, and we can
>>take that to make a "auto232" library that anyone using unix can call).  I have
>>been trying to study the windows auto232 interface, but it is a nightmare,
>>still, because it uses the old auto232 message format with two levels of parsing
>>(which makes little sense). IE I send a somewhat cryptic message to the driver
>>(cryptic because of a byzantine format) that the driver then modifies and sends
>>to the other driver over the interface, which has to modify that to send it to
>>the engine, which has to modify that to interpret what the devil it means.
>>
>>That is not necessary.  And there is *no* sense in thinking "windoze" only for
>>this interface, because it can work linux to windows, and linux to linux, as
>>well as windows to windows, if done correctly.
>
>Sounds good to me. I use OS/2, but I will be getting Linux soon.
>
>>Anyone interested?  Shareware/Freeware guys want to take the lead here and do
>>this right, once and for all?
>
>I'd like to be included in the discussion of the standard. There should be some
>attention paid to keeping the clocks in sync, however this might best be done.
>


someone suggested the xboard/winboard engine interface.  That might well be a
decent start.  It allows for clock updates and so forth.  All we have to do is
do something that prevents "cheating" there of course..




>kp



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