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Subject: Re: Amir Ban will have his chance to prove that DB was NOT better

Author: David Dory

Date: 05:50:28 11/14/02

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On November 13, 2002 at 05:30:24, Uri Blass wrote:

>On November 13, 2002 at 05:05:28, David Dory wrote:
>
>>On November 13, 2002 at 04:32:11, Jorge Pichard wrote:
>>
>>>This was article was copied from, Mig is the editor-in-chief of
>>>KasparovChess.com.
>>>
>>>"So we know that Deep Blue was much faster than anything around today, even
>>>hundreds of times faster. But does that mean better? You can always count on
>>>Amir Ban to cut through the hot air and he does so admirably here, "I've written
>>>on this several times, and to summarize my position, it is that a machine that
>>>is much better than all the others must be shown to play an objectively good
>>>move that the others don't, or at least the others need much more time to play
>>>it.
>>>
>>>During the debate the supporters of Deep Blue's exceptional strength were asked
>>>to name such a move, but failed to show anything convincing. This was the
>>>situation even in 1997, when PCs and engines were weaker.
>>>
>>>If Deep Blue did not play in its entire career a move that shows exceptional
>>>depth, then I'm not prepared to believe it had it (and if it had it, it was a
>>>wasted career)."
>>>
>>>In other words, Deep Blue, put up or shut up! Falling back on theory and one
>>>fluke result of six games is no substitute for empirical evidence. From the hard
>>>data we have we know that Deep Blue's potential was far beyond what current
>>>programs on current hardware are capable of. What we don't know is if this
>>>potential was ever realized in the quality of its chess, and we won't know as
>>>long as DB remains mothballed. (A Deep Blue Jr. is still around and has made
>>>sporadic appearances.)
>>>
>>>My thanks to Prof. Hyatt, Amir Ban, and everyone in the Computer Chess Club
>>>discussion group for their input and views."
>>
>>It's important to remember the basics here - Deep Blue is 1) a non-speaking
>>chess computer, and 2) is non-operational.
>>
>>So asking DB to "put up or shut up", is quite telling of the writer's
>>intellectual grasp of the topic, of logic, or both.
>>
>>The "supporters of deep blue" (whoever THEY may be), only had to ask GK about a
>>"good move db made". GK even alleged possible cheating with one very good DB
>>move, saying "no computer would make that move".
>
>I do not think that it was a good move.
>This move was not typical to computers but we have no proof that it was better
>than the typical computer move.
>
>Uri

Well, the move stunned GK, and DB2 won the match. I strongly suspect DB2 DID in
fact, make some good moves!

I'm always bemused at the "analysis" or "critique" of a chess game or move by
people who's OTK elo is hundreds less than the actual players of the game
involved.

You may study a move or game for a very long time, and come to some conclusion
about it's quality, but that's NOT how the player's decided their moves. All
their moves were made in tournament time - not after leisurely study, and with
the help of perhaps 2 or 3 other chess programs to assist.

David







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