Author: Bob Durrett
Date: 06:39:52 11/15/02
Go up one level in this thread
On November 15, 2002 at 07:46:07, Sandro Necchi wrote: >On November 15, 2002 at 02:24:14, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On November 15, 2002 at 01:29:06, Sandro Necchi wrote: >> >>>On November 14, 2002 at 12:48:11, Sandro Necchi wrote: >>> >>>>On November 14, 2002 at 07:49:14, Vincent Lejeune wrote: >>>> >>>>>On November 14, 2002 at 07:40:08, Sandro Necchi wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On November 14, 2002 at 02:55:46, stuart taylor wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On November 14, 2002 at 00:59:54, Sandro Necchi wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On November 13, 2002 at 10:32:11, Christophe Theron wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On November 13, 2002 at 01:26:19, stuart taylor wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>On November 13, 2002 at 00:41:41, Christophe Theron wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>On November 12, 2002 at 13:55:34, José Carlos wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>On November 12, 2002 at 13:30:49, Christophe Theron wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>On November 12, 2002 at 02:48:21, José Carlos wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>On November 11, 2002 at 22:08:13, Christophe Theron wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On November 11, 2002 at 19:13:19, John Rice wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I realize these engines are not even available yet commercially, but I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>guessing they have been beta testing for some time. For those of you involved in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the beta testing, or have access to beta results, which of these three engines >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>do you expect to top the SSDF? With Deep Fritz 7 and Chess Tiger 15 added to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>mix, how would you rank all five from top to bottom? Here is my guess: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>1. Shredder 7 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>2. Fritz 8 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>3. Chess Tiger 15 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>4. Junior 8 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>5. Deep Fritz 7 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On what is based your guess? Crystal ball? Marijuana? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christophe >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you use crystal ball and marijuana? Or do you think anyone who posts >>>>>>>>>>>>>>something you don't like is in drugs? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> José C. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>It's not that I don't like it. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>It's just that rolling dices would be a more scientific method. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>But who cares about science here? It's all about impressions and fantasy. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Christophe >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Science is part of the fun. Impressions and fantasy are other part of the fun. >>>>>>>>>>>>None of both parts deserve the accusation of using drugs. Open your mind; >>>>>>>>>>>>there're more things in the world apart from science. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> José C. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Open your mind too. Never heard about "humour" (or "humor", depending on where >>>>>>>>>>>you live)? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>It was an humoristic way for me to say that this prediction was bullshit. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Christophe >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Is my prediction (a few posts below) just as BS? >>>>>>>>>>S.Taylor >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Any prediction that includes non-released programs is bullshit. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>It depends who makes it and how it is made. >>>>>>>>A general statement like this is bullshit. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Christophe >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Sandro >>>>>>> >>>>>>>And just wait and see if I was right! >>>>>>>Junior 8 >>>>>>>Tiger 15 >>>>>>>Fritz 8 >>>>>>>Shredder 7 >>>>>>>DF. 7 >>>>>>>And CM9K Utzinger very close by. >>>>>>>S.Taylor >>>>>> >>>>>>OK, here are my expectations: >>>>>> >>>>>>Junior 8 = + 60 points over Junior 7 >>>>>>Tiger 15 = + 45 points over CT14 >>>>>>Fritz 8 will be postponed to make it stronger... >>>>>>Shredder 7 = + 50 points over UCI Paderborn >>>>>>DF 7 = we know it already. My expectation after seeing some games was 35-40 >>>>>>points stronger than Fritz 7 >>>>> >>>>>1 Deep Fritz 7.0 256MB Athlon 1200 MHz 2763 >>>>>2 Fritz 7.0 256MB Athlon 1200 MHz 2742 >>>>> >>>>>only 21 points difference ... so you admit that your error margin is 180% ?? ;o) >>>> >>>>Yes, but I do not know this program as I do with Shredder and I think it will >>>>gain some points in the near feature as Fritz 7 will loose some. >>>> >>>>Sandro >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Now you can guess the resulting SSDF list >>>>>> >>>>>>Sandro >>> >>>I mean that the final difference will be around 30 points. >>> >>>Anyway I AM NOT INTERESTED TO FIND OUT EXACTLY HOW MANY POINTS DIFFERENCE THERE >>>IS BETWEEN A PROGRAM AND ANOTHER. For me 10-15 points more or less means very >>>little. >>> >>>Today is difficult to see if a version is stronger than another and you are >>>pointing out that the difference is about 14 points? >>> >>>SSDF makes very many games and still leave an error percentage, so how can I be >>>precise 100%? > >Hi, >> >>Simply by giving more freedom for error in your estimates. > >I made predictions so I gave the most expectable value (to me). >> >>Instead of saying that a program is 35-40 elo better you can say it is 5-60 elo >>better. > >5 to 60 does not mean anything. >I would not say that player plays 1000 to 2700 Elo points... > >> >>I do not believe that you or somebody else can get a good estimate for the exact >>difference in an interval of 5 elo after seeing some games. > >What you believe is not important. If you wish to answer your questions [below] for movei, then Uri's opinions are useful. You can gain insights into Uri's program which you could not get by just studying movei's games. This same principle applies to all the other chess engines. Most of the authors of those engines post bulletins here and their bulletins provide insights into their programs you would not get otherwise. If you are competing with these guys, then here is your golden opportunity to obtain "intelligence information" about your competition. : ) Bob D. > >I repeat what is important to me is: > >1. Understand if an opponent program is somehow stronger and where. >2. Understand if an opponent program has specific strenght or weaknesses. >3. Where it is stronger or weaker >4. Which positions or openings plays better or worst > >This is why I look the opponents, because what is more important is to win the >tournaments. > >By looking the opponents and our experimenthal version I have an idea of all >these program and based on that I make my expectation. > >However, since these programs will be facing different opponents and the >openings books are quite large and with variety it is not possible to guess >exactly this. >In any case when a program is available for me is already PAST. > >In fact I am already working on the next version and book version as well. > >Sandro >> >>Uri
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